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Thread: Tibetan Kung Fu Styles

  1. #31
    WildMan_Riot Guest
    Dear warrenho,

    It's great to be able to speak to someone as knowledgable like you. in pak hok, there are the 7 main punches. "Jin" being the straight punch and circular punches for the others. Do you have the same punches in Lama? How would you use those swinging punches, they seem rather predictable? what do you do in your contact training?

  2. #32
    warrenoh Guest

    Lama & BakHok r the identical style with different names. it's like learning the same MA with different sifus. every sifu has his own aspect.
    there r 8 basic punches in both bakhok and lama. Some bakhok ppl train with 7 punches in the basic, without the only short-hand-uppercut punch. However, in the form there r all the 8 punches.

    I can't explain you about contact training.

    1. my writing skill is not good enough to explain them in the cyberspace.
    2. U r NOT my student, i see no reason to explain u about the details.
    3. U r NOT even a member of BakHok.

    I know u r KF enthusiast with a lot of curiosity.
    i wish u the best.

    [This message has been edited by warrenoh (edited 05-02-2000).]

  3. #33
    WildMan_Riot Guest
    Hi Warrenoh

    Let's stick to generalities then. What range of attack are those full arm swings used for? they seem very powerful with full hip twist. Do you view the short hand upper cut as a modification of the long arm upper cut "pow"? and do you modify all long arm techniques into short arm techniques?

  4. #34
    Paul Skrypichayko Guest
    Something that just might help clarify things...

    There are two distinct crane styles. One being Bak Hok Pai, from Tibet, and the other one, Bak Hok Kuen, more from Shaolin. Similar names, but the kung fu is very different.

    Do any of you white crane lovers know the story about "Bak Hok Sam Fu"? (the three Fu's of White Crane).

  5. #35
    WildMan_Riot Guest

    When you refer to Pak Hok Kuen, are you refering to the branch that originated from Fuijian in southern china? If so can you explain to us how it is different from the Hop Gar system?

  6. #36
    Paul Skrypichayko Guest
    I do not practice either of these martial arts, so I'm only talking from what I have read and been told.

    Bak Hok Pai is the tibetan martial art. They focus more on cultivation.

    Bak Hok Kuen is the fukien (fujian) version from shaolin. The focus more on the forms like sleeping crane, calling crane, eating crane, etc.

    I don't know the actual differences in fighting and training.

    [This message has been edited by Paul Skrypichayko (edited 05-04-2000).]

  7. #37
    WildMan_Riot Guest

    I don't think it originated from shaolin but it may have become associated with shaolin because it was being taught there. But that doesn't really matter anyway as it is quite debatable where a style came from due to so much mixing and changes over the course of history. It is probably a steady evolution over the course of time that is linked to the development of a number of styles in that geographic region in the same period rather than a revolutionary idea developed by one or a small group of people.

    Anyway, I would like to ask you if you would be able to share your knowledge regarding the concepts contained in sleeping crane, eating crane etc.

  8. #38
    Paul Skrypichayko Guest

    Good point you made. People are too concerned about the little details. It doesnt really matter where it came from, who practiced it, etc. It is just classified as being in the family of shaolin.

    I know that Yang Jwing Ming practices sleeping crane, eating crane, etc, but he may also practice tibetan crane as well.

    My master learned a little bit of that same crane style when he was younger in Hong Kong (just to give him a different perspective). He just commented about its effectiveness, good training methods, and how it is so **** unique compared to more common southern "shaolin type" martial arts (hung gar, choy li fut, wing chun, etc.)

  9. #39
    warrenoh Guest

    Tibetan WhiteCrane is comepletely different with Fujian WhiteCrane.

    As u can tell from the name, the areas which they r originated r way too far. they have no relations at all.

    BakHokSamFu- KwongBonFu, LukChiFu, ChanHokFu

    KwongBonFu is my SiGung, LukChiFu is a KF brother of KBF, ChanHokFu is a my Si-Bak(uncle)

    They r all famous and well-respected masters in BakHokPai.

    they are called BakHokSamFu, cuz their name all ends with same character(Fu).

    P.S i've heard of YangJwingMing, but i never heard that he trained in Tibetan BakHokPai, i wonder who he trained under.

  10. #40
    WildMan_Riot Guest

    What does your instructor train in besides crane? Are the names you've mentioned "sleeping crane", "eating crane" etc different branches of the crane style or are they different concepts of the crane style? In general terms, what are the combat tactics of a crane practitioner?

  11. #41
    darkie71 Guest
    Hi there, I've been practicing Bak Hok for a little over 10 years now. My lineage: Wong Lam-hoi, Nhg Siu-chung, Chan Hak-fu, John Cole, me. My sifu also studied under a man named George Long (who has somewhat controversial MA history,) and Leung Quan in San Francisco chinatown. George Long was also student of Chan Hak-fu I believe. One of my MA uncles, who studied under Leung Quan said that George Longs KF was not real Bak Hok, but rather Hop Ga; this is utterly ridiculous to me since they are just different names for the same art. Wong Yan-lam's senior student (Wong Hon-wing) adopted the name Hop Ga, then Wong Lam-hoi's senior student (Nhg Siu-chung) adopted the name White Crane. Wong Yan-lam and Wong Lam-hoi were brothers who had the same teacher (Sing Lung Lo Jung,) therefore it's the same MA. ANYWAY, I feel that I must agree with everything that Warren said in regards to effectiveness of Bak Hok; from my own experience (though it would seem, not nearly as extensive as Warren's) I have consistently myself overwhelmed and destroyed opponents using the techiques of White Crane, as well as witnessed a few "hard-core" knock-outs by my Si-hing. I have experience and/or knowledge of several other MA systems (chinese and otherwise) and of the all, Bak Hok is by far one of the most powerful that I've seen; of course it does depend on the practioner. I must say, though, Bak Hok has historically always produced excellent, effective and efficient fighters.

  12. #42
    Fu Manchu Guest

    Let me share with you my training routine in Pak Hok I have practiced Pak Hok for a number of years. We commence training by doing push ups and various stretching warm-up exercises. The we drill repetitively in the basic 7 punches. Our master may call a student to the back of the hall to work with him on his Zin with hand pads. We may then do some form work before going on to 2 person training.

    The 2 person training involves the students standing in the circle where one student will nominate to be the one who stands in the middle. A student from the circumfrence may call out and charge forward throwing a Zin punch. The defending student would react by stepping back and doing a circular block before throwing 2 zin punches at the attacker. The attacker would remain motionless until the defender has finished his punches.

    There's another exercise where the attacker would throw a zin and the defender would side step and pull the attacker off balance. The attacker would allow himself to be pulled but will do a jumping spin to regain his balance.

    In Pak Hok, we don't spar because our techniques are too dangerous and powerful. We are trained not to hold back our techniques.

    I will share with you the secrets of Soft-crane, short stick, arm conditioning exercises and long range techniques in the forms in my next posts.

    Now for the interesting part on how we train for competitions. The secret is to overwhelm the opponent with long zins. At close range we would use short zins. (that's because those downward overhead hit are disallowed in some tornerments). When we throw a zin, we use the full waist twist which is the core concept of simultanous attack and defense.

    There was a competition when my brother went up against a kick boxer. He came in with zins but the kick boxer side stepped and punched him in the head. Total KO. I guess the kick boxer just got lucky that day becuase Pak Hok is such a deadly style.

  13. #43
    warrenoh Guest

    Chan HokFu, George Long, LeungQuan,......

    Chan HokFu, probably is the most famous white crane master for his battle with NgGungYee in macao, 1953. He is one of BakHokSamFu(i mentioned about this on reply above)

    George Long? i've never heard of him, or seen him
    in annual magazine from PakHokAthleticAssotiation.

    LeungQuan and his 2 brothers(blood), trained under KwongBonFu's club in KowLoon for a number of years, before they came to SF, united states.

  14. #44
    i've seen pak hok fight they swing too much, do you guys walk aroud your opponent with arms stretched out?
    if you do get hit buy a swinging arm you will definetly go down.


  15. #45
    Black Jack Guest
    Man I am going to get flamed but what else is new...

    I am sorry Fu Manchu but if you do not practice sparring at all, than you are wasting your time and in a real life confrontation you could end up beat to **** or even worse dead.

    When people mention such things as we do not spar because our systems techniques are very deadly or that their static training partners "let" themselves get thrown or attacked in a drill, than all you do is REINFORCE the basic fact that what you call traditional kung fu practice just creates dancers and not fighters.

    All pretty moves and no very common.

    Your sifu should teach you about the difference between self perfection and self peservation.

    If you guys do not spar or have any "alive" training than your basics must be horrible and I hope that you find a realistic school that cares about its students survival in a world where anything can happen.



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