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Thread: Five Ancestors: Wuzhuquan/Ngo Cho Kuen

  1. #1
    Ben Gash Guest

    Five Ancestors: Wuzhuquan/Ngo Cho Kuen

    Are the Lohan and Taizhu aspects of Wuzhuquan longarm? Logically they should be, and I saw some of Kim Han's students the other week doing sets that were virtually identical to my own longfist system, but when I trained in Wuzhuquan, all the training was shorthand.

  2. #2
    ngocho199 Guest

    Ngo Cho Kun

    Is anyone in here familiar with the style of Ngo Cho Kun? If so I would like to talk to you about the style - I love learning the history of it and would like to further my understanding and relationship with this style.

  3. #3
    Grays Anatomy Guest

    Don't really know anything about it but...

    There is a school in Jersey.

    NGO CHO KUN FIVE ANCESTORS FISTS
    Sifu Bonifacio Lim
    2111 Fox Run Dr.
    Plainsboro, NJ. [609] 716-9620

  4. #4
    Shaolin Master Guest

    Ngo Cho Kuen

    Wu Zhu Quan
    What would you like to know specifically ?
    There are two versions to the history and how it was composed ! Either 5 monks(ancestors) or 5 Systems...it depends on who as to what version.

    I will most of your direct queries

    Shi Chan Long

  5. #5
    Ben Gash Guest

    Five Ancestors

    I have trained in this system in the past. It is a fusion of five styles (which five depends upon the lineage). All agree on Fujian white crane, Taizhu longfist, Lohanquan and monkey. ON the 5th one they vary from Damo style (internal), Shaun Yee sun frost white crane (internal) and tiger.
    The training will depend on where you go as well. From what I've seen of Master Lim's stuff, he does a lot of the Taizhu stuff, whereas schools in the Chee Kim Thong lineage place a lot of emphasis on the shorthand crane aspect.
    It is an interesting system, and due to it's diverse nature you should be able to find whatever you are looking for.

    "Weapons are the embodiments of fear,
    the wise use them only when they have no choice"
    Lao Tzu

  6. #6
    ngocho199 Guest
    Thank you all for your time. i already train under Sifu Bonifacio Lim - a practicing student of 4 years even though i live in nyc. I would like to hear more about the two different 'versions' mentioned above... i find that very interesting.

  7. #7
    Shaolin Master Guest

    combined

    Lohan and Taizuquan aspects are longer to use the word but not as long as say original Taizuchangquan of the north, from a purely simple visual aspect.

    In Wuzuquan the flavours of all 5 were consolidated not maintained.

    Southern Taizuquan is quite short as well.

    Southern lohan has movements in all ranges.

  8. #8
    can u please trace the lineage of boni lim? he might as well came from manila if im not mistaken...we may have trained from the same master....
    kong han martyial arts assn
    zacateros st,binondo manila

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Sydney, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    4,418
    I train under the Chee Kim Thong lineage. I will see what I can dig up about the history of the art according to what I have been taught (which is slightly different to the history taught by the Phillipines lineage I think).

    Out of interest, check out these websites:

    http://www.gorchor.us/

    http://www.geocities.com/kungfu_gala...n/NgoChor.html
    cxxx[]:::::::::::>
    Behold, I see my father and mother.
    I see all my dead relatives seated.
    I see my master seated in Paradise and Paradise is beautiful and green; with him are men and boy servants.
    He calls me. Take me to him.

  10. #10
    thank u! i ask this bec bonifaio lim is a filipino chinese name...he may as well migrated from here....
    kong han martyial arts assn
    zacateros st,binondo manila

  11. #11
    Histories and origins differ but the art is the same

    whether Malaysian, Singaporean, Taiwanese, Phillipino or Fujianese ...they are all brothers(and sisters).

    The wuzu family is a great one and lucky for the non-mainland propagation of the art that the mainland has been able to re-consolidate and unify wuzuquan again.

    Chee Kim Thong'sschools should be influenced by his training and background. As us the singaporean schools are influenced by the crane aspect and luohan predominately depending if they were from Lin's or Gao Can'slineages respectively.

    History question is :
    Did Chua Giok Beng develop, compose reorganise the art or was passed down from the 5 ancestor legend as susggested by the Chee KIm Thong's ? Since all lineages including Grandmaster Chee have Cai Yu Ming in the lineage tree it is dfficult to distinguish. In singapore it is known as CaiYuMing Pai (ChuaGiok Beng's) as to acknowledge his role.
    it is not important but always a topic.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Sydney, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    4,418

    Shaolin Master

    Agreed - Ngor Chor is a great family regardless of lineage. The main differences I have noticed is that one lineage may emphasize one of the 5 foundation arts more than the others. Most of the lineages appear to be influenced by Tai Tzu, however in the Chee Kim Thong lineage the White Crane appears to have had more influence, probably because Grandmaster Chee studied White Crane at some point in his career (among many other arts).

    I am no expert on the history of the art, and any more insights anyone can provide are like gold to me. As far as I have been taught (and as far as I can recall), Ngor Chor was developed sometime around 1300-1400AD by Bai Yuk Feng (I think). It was supposed to have been developed at Henan but travelled to the South. As for the rest of the history, I am pretty unclear on it. Let me go read up on my material and get back to you .
    cxxx[]:::::::::::>
    Behold, I see my father and mother.
    I see all my dead relatives seated.
    I see my master seated in Paradise and Paradise is beautiful and green; with him are men and boy servants.
    He calls me. Take me to him.

  13. #13
    true very true :-) but whats really important is how the art got to ur kwan.....i say its important bec some guy maybe teaching people fake stuff read from a book or isnt even member of any ruling party...and this is sad..the situation is so bad that now,some schools in china are fakes!!!....even the monks now are commercialy driven! :-(...they give u degree and diploma,belts and what ever....if i offended anyone,sorry.this is just my thought...

    PS: the dead malaysian guy(forgot the name)used to visit kong han..i was told that malaysian sifus wpuld come to kong han for a friendly visit when they happen to be on vacation here....
    kong han martyial arts assn
    zacateros st,binondo manila

  14. #14
    the wuzu fed's conference will be held in qunzhou shaolin temple again i suppose...this november,...if anyone is going pls tell me :-) i stand up among all konghan guys since only i have a beard and moustache:-) everybody else shave theirs....i wish i can go this year!!! i really want to learn the tiger fork!!! what i am trying to master now is the 2x ax since it fits my stature i was told..im short and stocky :-) 5'3.5 at 150lbs of mostly muscle then fat :-) i maybe the shortest in the group too :-)
    kong han martyial arts assn
    zacateros st,binondo manila

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Sydney, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    4,418
    Originally posted by pitbull
    true very true :-) but whats really important is how the art got to ur kwan.....i say its important bec some guy maybe teaching people fake stuff read from a book or isnt even member of any ruling party...and this is sad..the situation is so bad that now,some schools in china are fakes!!!....even the monks now are commercialy driven! :-(...they give u degree and diploma,belts and what ever....if i offended anyone,sorry.this is just my thought...

    PS: the dead malaysian guy(forgot the name)used to visit kong han..i was told that malaysian sifus wpuld come to kong han for a friendly visit when they happen to be on vacation here....
    Yeah, there are fakes everywhere. Everyone wants to claim to be a master but very few are the real deal. Shame that there are so many dishonest people out there, but I guess that is the world we live in.

    As far as the monks go, I spent a day training with the ones at the Quanzhou temple. They were very good at what they do, and they learned stuff very quickly. Their commercial practices may be dubious but I do not doubt their training.

    The dead Malaysian guy - Grandmaster Chee Kim Thong - was my sifu. It is good to know that the masters of Ngor Chor visited each other regularly. It suggests a unity in the art that is sadly not more widespread in MA.
    cxxx[]:::::::::::>
    Behold, I see my father and mother.
    I see all my dead relatives seated.
    I see my master seated in Paradise and Paradise is beautiful and green; with him are men and boy servants.
    He calls me. Take me to him.

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