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Thread: Qigong and Yoga

  1. #46
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    holy blah blah blah guys.

    keep it simple. seeing as for the most part, little is known about how, why or when it works. Only theory and practice.

    Qigong and Yoga are different ...period

    you can do them both, or one or none.

    they all encourage good posture and steady breathing regardless of all the different ways to make you aware of yourself as a physical, emotional and energetic being.

    the end
    thank you.
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  2. #47
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    This is maybe splitting hairs, but if you're doing it incorrectly, it's arguable that you aren't really doing it, right?

    Let's try this: correct practice will never be dangerous, if taken at an appropriate pace.


    And no, I've never heard of kundalini psychosis. Is that a band?
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  3. #48
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    Your manipulating your bodies energy or chi or prana or pnuema or whatever u wanna call it. I know people here have heard warnings about the dangers of qigong. Wells its the same for yoga. Like i said, its not at all about stretching your hamstrings to unwind after work. Its a a religious exercise tied Hinduism and Buddhism. With the main goal of expanding your consciousness and becoming one with the universe or sumthin like that and there are alot of steps to make sure u do it safely. I hope i articulated that well....anyway

    To answer your questions I've read about cases of people going insane or developing cancer, and so you dont im pulling this outta my ass....

    "One often hears and reads about the dangers of Yoga, particularly of the ill-reputed Kundalini Yoga. The deliberately induced psychotic state, which in certain unstable individuals might easily lead to a real psychosis, is a danger that needs to be taken very seriously indeed. These things really are dangerous and ought not to be meddled with in our typically Western way. It is a meddling with Fate, which strikes at the very roots of human existence and can let loose a flood of sufferings of which no sane person ever dreamed. These sufferings correspond to the hellish torments of the chönyid state..." C. G. Jung, The Tibetan book of the Dead *

    "Shree Purohit Swami’s commentary on Patanjali’s Yoga Sutras warns, "People forget that Yama and Niyama [limbs one and two] form the foundation [of yoga practice], and unless it is firmly laid, they should not practice postures and breathing exercises. In India and Europe, I came across some three hundred people who suffered permanently from wrong practices, the doctors on examination found there was nothing organically wrong and consequently could not prescribe." 7 Because most people (including most medical doctors) wrongly assume that yoga is harmless, they rarely consider its possible relevance to any illnesses of their patients who practice yoga. But we are convinced that many perplexing diseases, including some deaths, are related to yoga. Richard Kieninger, a New Age educator, recalls, "A woman of my acquaintance upset her hormonal balance doing this yoga exercise, and it produced a malfunction in her adrenal glands. Doctors didn’t know how to reverse the effects... and she soon died.... Swami Rama warns that advanced forms of patterned breathing, which is a common yoga exercise, can cause a person to harm himself irreparably." 8 United Nations spiritual adviser and spiritist Sri Chinmoy, 9 author of Yoga and the Spiritual Life, 10 admits, "To practice pranayama [breath control] without real guidance is very dangerous. I know of three persons who have died from it…" 11 In Yoga and Mysticism, Swami Prabhavananda warns about the dangers of the yoga breathing exercises, which so many today think are harmless, when he writes:

    "Now we come to breathing exercises. Let me caution you: they can be very dangerous. Unless properly done, there is a good chance of injuring the brain. And those who practice such breathing without proper supervision can suffer a disease which no known science or doctor can cure. It is impossible, even for a medical person, to diagnose such an illness.... [For example,] I had known a young boy of perhaps 16 or 17 years of age who had begun to practice hatha yoga.... He was acting very strangely. He would prostrate fully on the ground, rise to full height, then repeat the performance—over and over again. The Swami said that he had lost his mind. ... Finally, however he became so unmanageable that he had to be confined.... As regards breathing exercises, I know that Sri Ramakrishna, Holy Mother, and all the disciples of Ramakrishna have warned us again not to practice them""

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  4. #49
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    Originally posted by emre
    That's simply not true. Chinese have always had their own Qigong systems. Over time, some stuff came over from India and Tibet and was assimilated into some of the existing methods.
    Well we have a difference of opinion but it wont do any good to argue. Agree to disagree....

    "better to reside in hell knowing the truth than to be blissfully ignorant in heaven."

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  5. #50
    Originally posted by FuXnDajenariht
    Well we have a difference of opinion but it wont do any good to argue. Agree to disagree....
    There are opinions and then there are FACTS.

  6. #51
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    ok enlighten me

    "better to reside in hell knowing the truth than to be blissfully ignorant in heaven."

    "Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."- Doug Adams

    I dare you to make less sense!

    "Freeze?! You know if i drop the tooth fairy i'm only gettin' started mother****er!"

    "It's called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it." - George Carlin

  7. #52
    Read up a bit on Qigong/Neigong history. There were very comprehensive methods in existence before anything came over from India or Tibet.

    There are still some Daoist methods that have remained completely pure. They have nothing in common with Indian or Tibetan methods in their practice. Even the ones that adopted some techniques from those schools are very different from them in too many ways to count.

  8. #53
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    Well ive read yogic and neigong history and about taoist history. I've actually studied alot about religion and it seems they all have common ground but thats another story....

    Anyway, there are conflicting views but even some taoist books say their practices are original but were derived from knowledge they gained from Indian mystics or holy men or what have you. Now if you or any other historian can go back in time 3 or 4,000 years ill be the first one to taut what you say as 100% FACT but when it comes to history you can't be sure that anything is complete FACT at all. All you have is the opinion of someone else based on the opinion and observances of another person. So believe what you want. Its really mostly opinion after u reach the 1000 year mark.

    "better to reside in hell knowing the truth than to be blissfully ignorant in heaven."

    "Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."- Doug Adams

    I dare you to make less sense!

    "Freeze?! You know if i drop the tooth fairy i'm only gettin' started mother****er!"

    "It's called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it." - George Carlin

  9. #54
    Meditation brings you closer to yourself.

    People who already have existing clinically diagnosed mental "disordders" should probably stay far away from meditation until they get that other stuff sorted out.

    In other words they should stay away from themselves.

    I just don't believe that any kind of meditation, yoga, chi gung or whatever could make you go crazy or give you cancer or whatever.

    It's all anecdote, conjecture and superstition until someone can verify the causation that occurs between mental illness and some "incorrect" meditation/qigong/yoga practice.
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  10. #55
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    Masturbation makes you go blind.

    Politicians are not out to **** you in the ass.

    Doing something incorrectly can drive you bat**** insane.

    These are the untruths of the world.
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  11. #56
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    People will believe what they want. Im not here to change anyones mind but he asked for opinions. You can find books written by dozens of different Yogis saying the same. Thats all i can go by. Im not gonna try to find out for myself for obvious reasons. Now if you want, you can argue with them about what they've practiced all their lives. Other Yogi think that its not possible. No one agrees 100% on most things. But im not the type to dismiss it just because i personally dont see how it can happen. If someone wants to be a guinea pig in the name of science then be my guest.

    "better to reside in hell knowing the truth than to be blissfully ignorant in heaven."

    "Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."- Doug Adams

    I dare you to make less sense!

    "Freeze?! You know if i drop the tooth fairy i'm only gettin' started mother****er!"

    "It's called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it." - George Carlin

  12. #57
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    Originally posted by emre
    Pranayama and meditation can be dangerous if you do it incorrectly. Ever heard of something called the "Kundalini pyschosis"?

    there's a fiction called "Kundalini Equation" by Steven Barnes. Barnes is a martial artist living in...crap, maybe Vancouver WA...

    basically the main character develops Kundalini psychosis but becomes a bad ass fighter because of it.

    it's a good read.

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846

    and cheap
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  13. #58
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    Everybody's overlooked the basic differences: most yoga is based on seven chakra which are in a direct line from the crown to the perineum and does not feature any reference or obvious belief in meridians; most chikung works on five main energy points which although are on a similar line, according to the Chinese medicine classics are slightly off line, and centred on an extensive network of interconnecting meridians.

    Consequently most yogic breathing is based on settling on one point or raising and sinking the breath along one line, whereas chikung follows an 'orbit'.

    That's just the way I understand it, I may have some bits wrong. Now please go back to your scheduled bickering over whether you can go mad through these practises, though frankly, I think some of you are living proof!

    Personally, I think breathing in a silly position can damage your muscles and therefore your organs, and therefore, if you are a little gullible/psychologically susceptible/unbalanced in the first place I see no reason why it shouldn't tip the balance even further... but no more than say, leaving a hat on the bed, or your Aunt Mabel turning out to be a man. But now I'm reverse breathing (blowing it out me ass)! That's probably cos I do full contact which I know can **** your head up!
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  14. #59
    Originally posted by FuXnDajenariht
    People will believe what they want. Im not here to change anyones mind but he asked for opinions. You can find books written by dozens of different Yogis saying the same. Thats all i can go by. Im not gonna try to find out for myself for obvious reasons. Now if you want, you can argue with them about what they've practiced all their lives. Other Yogi think that its not possible. No one agrees 100% on most things. But im not the type to dismiss it just because i personally dont see how it can happen. If someone wants to be a guinea pig in the name of science then be my guest.
    Personally, I think they all say that kind of stuff because it makes there meditation seem more powerful and mystical.

    Like...

    "ooooh....if you do that incorrectly it can make you go crazy...look how powerful it must be."

    There are lots of things you do that can cause a kind of temporary psychosis. For example, sensory deprivation can cause you to basically go on an LSD-like trip.

    Does that imply anything mystical?

    Not really. It's been studied scientifically and theres a simple explanation not requiring the supernatural.
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  15. #60
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    Heres the way i see it. These are the people who brought Yoga to the West and maybe they have something worth listening to or maybe. I wouldn't call them all complete liars though. The problem i think is even if there are scientific studies people still dont exactly know how it all works. You can say qiqong makes you healthier but no one agrees on how. I see it this way. If external energy (ex:radiation) can cause mutations (ex:cancer) in your bodies cells, then why can't you be affected internally? Of course you hafta assume that prana or chi exists in the first place if you practice qiqong. Thats just my "opinion" on it but im always looking for criticism. I'd rather know the truth than hold on to ideas that have no basis in reality.

    "better to reside in hell knowing the truth than to be blissfully ignorant in heaven."

    "Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."- Doug Adams

    I dare you to make less sense!

    "Freeze?! You know if i drop the tooth fairy i'm only gettin' started mother****er!"

    "It's called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it." - George Carlin

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