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Thread: Real Shaolin?

  1. #16
    Heming Guest
    Dear Lost-Disciple,
    Please ask them to gimme a call when they are here...they can reach me by phone number
    0136-1266-8533 or 2749172 from Shaolin Temple, and I would like to show them around...wish them have a nice experience here, my friend.

    Heming with regards

  2. #17
    SifuAbel Guest
    There is a phone at the temple? How odd.

  3. #18
    Self-Thinking Follower Guest
    MoQ, saying you are from shaolin, or saying that your kung fu comes from shaolin is definately okay, but saying that your kungfu is the REAL or UNCHANGED shaolin is a load of BS. Also not being a monk and dressing in monk garb is misleading and misrepresenting, I dont exclude the idiots here in the US that buy these outfits and shave their heads. You have posted before on my thread, did'nt you see that my problem is not where the kung fu comes from, its people trying to propagate a farce, fantasy. I know they're not monks! Now before you comment on those here, remember that my problem is with the RECENT trend started at songshan.

    Also, I dont think any of my teachers are embarrassed at me. Especially since they encouraged me to be myself and to express my feelings honestly. You cant fault one for that. I dont fault Heming for not answering my questions or for being asleep, we all have our beliefs but here we can question each other about them, get it?

    As for shaolin this and Shaolin that, I say your right but I also see sytems like: Hung Gar, Hung Fut, Fut Gar, Choy Lay Fut, Wing Chun, Bak Mei, Wu Mei, Lei Gar, Lau Gar, Choy Gar, Mok Gar, Lung Ying, Go Tzu, Pei Ho,Ying Jow, Fu Jow, Lan Shou, Hung Chuan, Lo Han, Pan Gar, Jook Lam, Lok Hop, Mei Hua,Pao Chui, and many others, derived from shaolin and standing on their own merits. Without the need to dress in monk attire or have a special address.

    MoQ, the Shaolin of Songshan kung fu today is shaolin but the curriculum was only recently put together from preserved forms that NON MONKS PRACTICED!, Now called, "FOLK MASTERS". There is no such thing as an unbroken lineage of monks or a traditional standard system, preserved by monks. Is my belief clear now?

  4. #19
    Chameleon Guest
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by MoQ:

    Heming's art is Shaolin because he studies at the Temple.

    Actually, I believe his school is near the temple. According to the article, "At a smaller school halfway up the mountain above Shaolin, Shi Hengjun..."

    I don't think that makes it any less legitimate, but from everything I've read, the actual temple is more of a tourist attraction today than a martial arts training center.

    MANY MA's are called "Shaolin" for none other than a mere selling point.

    I think there is an important distinction that is being lost here. There is nothing wrong with using a term for marketing reasons, IMO, unless that term is used deceptively.

    It would be deceptive to teach ju jitsu and call it "Shaolin". Simlarly, it would be deceptive to promise students the opportunity to live/study in the Shaolin Temple when in fact they would not be training in the temple.

    But I don't really see a lot of deception going on here.

    I prefer names like tai chi, praying mantis, etc., to describe the content of what is taught. But the reality is that content must be marketed in terms that prospective students understand.

    Many CMA schools call themselves "kung fu" schools purely for marketing reasons. We all know that "kung fu" means mastery of time and effort, and not CMA. But since the term has improperly become synonymous with CMA, schools must market themselves as "kung fu" schools so that prospective students understand what kind of school it is.

    I see the same thing with regards to "Shaolin". While it is really more of a place than a style, it has become synonymous with certain CMA styles. Styles that teach animal forms that originated or were refined by the temple are being completely honest, IMO, by calling themselves "Shaolin XXXXX" because they are trying to convey their content in terms that prospective students can understand.

    If HE has no right to the name, who are YOU???????

    I don't think that anyone here is saying that Heming has no right to the name. He clearly does, in my view.

    I just don't agree with the notion that only Heming has the right to the name, and any other style that uses the name is somehow "faceless" or "illegitimate".

    The Shaolin Temple is being used for commercial reasons all over the world, including in China. Heming and his master are clearly using the Shaolin Temple for commercial reasons.

    And there is nothing wrong with this. In fact, it is the best way, IMO, to preserve the art, the spirit of the art, and the temple with which the art is associated.

    I expect that Heming's school is one of the finest martial arts schools in the world, and that the dedication they require/demand is way beyond what you find in Western schools. There is nothing wrong with them wanting to make money so that they can buy modern toilets, etc.

    But there is also nothing wrong with Western schools wanting to attract students, and using terms like "kung fu" and "Shaolin" to describe their content.

  5. #20
    Gargoyle again Guest
    quote: "There is a phone at the temple? How odd."

    There seems to be this peculiar desire among people that to be "legitimate" shaolin, one must also discard the modern and live the life of 300 years ago: no technology, no convenience, no money, toiling in fields, living as an anachronism. To do this would bring LESS legitamacy in my eyes, much like a renaissance performer or civil war renactor aren't "real", merely imitators of the past.

    When I see Shaolin monks with cell phones, cars, marketing themselves, I think instead "good for them". I would be very disappointed if adapting to modern ways was forbidden. There is nothing in Chan Buddhism that says you cant wear stylish sunglasses. Come on guys, these are not the Amish here. Quit mysticizing them and trying to hold them aloft as something they aren't.

    Granted, the lineage and authenticity of the kung fu itself is arguable at times, but there is also not just a single school or style there, but dozens. I think it would be hasty to judge all of the kung fu of the entire region on the examples of a few travelling stage performers.

  6. #21
    3BladesFighter Guest
    The Shaolin are real. I was there, you stupid fool.

    Fullness is achieved only when one has truly earned it

  7. #22
    MoQ Guest
    The resentment and jealousy run very high in these threads. We desire what they have, but can never really own it. We can't even take responsibility for the resultant discomfort.

    "Darkness runs in fear of what it can never be."

  8. #23
    Self-Thinking Follower Guest
    No jealousy, some resentment, yes, foolishness only in trying to get facts on the contrary, which no one has been able to present, not even the lay. Last you must be, cause you got no facts to offer this discussion, perhaps its best to leave this discussion now, before the highly educated leaders of Wu-de (Martial virtue) begin to troll. Honestly, I thought someone out there may of had dates, real names or other pertinent facts to prove me wrong, but I see its now back to the neanderthal level, where people switch from intellectual to physical. Before I entertain keyboard death threats, I would rather move to another board where people really practice what they preach (Wu-de) as opposed to the trolls who challenge behind usernames and prove involvement online for real discussion futile, especially when they have NOTHING to offer.
    For those who discussed the subject with me, thank you for the patience and time, continued success in your martial endeavors.


  9. #24
    qy Guest
    umm, You were hoping that folks would not have their own opinions? You were hoping that unlike you folks would post their full names and addresses? The only one who DOES that is Heming.
    I trust your feelings and the other folks here about the Shaolin Temple more then I do some guy at NBC.
    You know that our media is after flashy titles right? Thats why you started this thread under a diffrent name to draw attention right? so you know how this works. Look, your thread has many more responses at this point then the original thread under a less catchy name.
    You want dates to prove that Shaolin is real? Why would Shaolin worry about proving to you it's worth?
    What risk do you run if the name of Shaolin is not tarnished?
    Why dont you prove to us that Heming does not exsist? or his teacher? Provide data to prove that Shaolin is some sort of a hologram. I stated what I think in the original thread.

  10. #25
    SifuAbel Guest
    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gargoyle again:
    quote: "There is a phone at the temple? How odd."

    There seems to be this peculiar desire among people that to be "legitimate" shaolin, one must also discard the modern and live the life of 300 years ago: no technology, no convenience, no money, toiling in fields, living as an anachronism. To do this would bring LESS legitamacy in my eyes, much like a renaissance performer or civil war renactor aren't "real", merely imitators of the past.

    Modern life? Technology? Haveing Money? Wearing Gucci sunglasses? Are you decribing the the life of a monk or the characters on Miami Vice? They are MONKS!! They are supposed to relinquish all worldy possesions and live a life of austerities and prayer. It doesn't matter if they are shaolin monks or franciscan monks, the deal is the same. Heck, why don't just send them to Vegas. With enough booze and chicks I'm sure any semblance of buddhism can be thoroughly wiped out.
    " these are not the Amish here. Quit mysticizing them and trying to hold them aloft as something they aren't."

    On the contrary they ARE the Amish, or at least they should be. Quite right, we hold them aloft as something they are not. Most of these kids they pass off as monks today don't have the foggiest notion of what their own dharma is all about. This whole "having possesions" issue shows that some of you don't know either.

  11. #26
    Heming Guest
    Why monks can't have their own life style but should just follow YOUR imagination to live? we are not live for YOU, and by the way, how much you know about Chinese monks?


  12. #27
    MoQ Guest
    FYI, Franciscan monks have gold rings, gold chalices, the very best printing equipment. Of course, they pray OPENLY with the ceramic stuff, they got an IMAGE, you know...

    You ARE right, they aren't paid nearly as much as some other orders, but the Catholic Church is MADE of $$$$ what the what is your POINT?
    Say, you think the POPE has a cell phone? Access to the Internet?

  13. #28
    Brad Guest

    What are the vows that a monk takes?

  14. #29
    Gojira Guest
    And why would someone who followed the teachings of Buddha even practice sensationalism? Wouldn't there be someline to be drawn?

    If you have nothing to do, don't do it here!

  15. #30
    SifuAbel Guest
    The Pope is as far from being a monk as you are from the moon. Heming needs another bowl of granola. He's too busy patting himself on the back. You sound like you just took a picture with Elvis; So does that make you Elvis' cousin or something.

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