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Thread: Historical Fencing

  1. #61
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    whoa, way to go Gene!

    yenhoi...'Mote...' was an awesome book. Ringworld is good but not the best. Have you read "Legacy of Hearot" ? Niven, Pournelle and Steven Barnes...hella good, maybe one of the best and would make an awesome movie.

    WHICH, BTW, IF NONE OF YOU FOOLS HAVE READ ANY STEVEN BARNES YET...I MIGHT JUST GIVE UP TRYING TO PROMOTE HIM

    Streetlethal
    Gorgon Child
    Firedance

    Blood Brothers

    Dream Park (w/ Larry Niven)

    among others...
    "George never did wake up. And, even all that talking didn't make death any easier...at least not for us. Maybe, in the end, all you can really hope for is that your last thought is a nice one...even if it's just about the taste of a nice cold beer."

    "If you find the right balance between desperation and fear you can make people believe anything"

    "Is enlightenment even possible? Or, did I drive by it like a missed exit?"

    It's simpler than you think.

    I could be completely wrong"

  2. #62
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    US Army fencing program? Cool, I didn't even know they had one that recently. Hey Gene, have you checked out the book "The Secret History of the Sword--Adventures in Ancient Martial Arts" by J. Christoph Amberger? He's got a couple related chapters---He does a review of General Patton's 1913 saber system, and he also reprints a WWII manual of what Allied soldiers should do if they encounter sword-wielding Axis officers. I would highly recommend this book for anyone interested in swords----he destroys a lot of myths, makes a lot of controversial points, and covers an incredibly wide time-line of sword history. And, he personally fought sharp Mensur duels in Germany in the late 80's. One of the points he made that I thought was quite interesting was his belief that the stress and fear of actual combat can negate 50-80% of a martial artists' training.

    Speaking of Epee, I just started taking that a bit more seriously--getting some real lessons instead of just bouting. I'm not sure if it will be my cup of tea. With foil and the right-of-way, I feel like I have time to plan my attacks, but with Epee I just get poked in the godd&mn forearm before I know what's happened.

  3. #63

    Re: dude?

    Originally posted by GeneChing
    But this thread is not really about fencing anymore, is it?
    Actually, I was planning to steer the discussion through a series of movies that would end with 'Circle of Steel', and thus perform the difficult 'triple-half-gainer-reverse-threadjack' maneuver.
    "hey pal, you wanna do the dance of destruction with the belle of the ball, just say the word." -apoweyn

  4. #64
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    Id like to know about fencing footwork outside of competitive fencing. Maybe more details about the counter-for-counter drills.

    I think ive read everything by Niven. Nothing recently, I havent had time to read that stuff since college started.

    strike!

  5. #65
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    yenhoi, Niven's not my most favorite but I've read the first 3 of the ringworld series, 'mote...' and a few others.

    the 'fools' bit wasn't directed at you personally.

    Steven Barnes is just my personal crusade. A very under appreciated author. If you have time to squeeze a book in on break or something, I highly recommend "The Legacy of Hearot". Quite a read and one of the scariest creatures I've ever read.
    "George never did wake up. And, even all that talking didn't make death any easier...at least not for us. Maybe, in the end, all you can really hope for is that your last thought is a nice one...even if it's just about the taste of a nice cold beer."

    "If you find the right balance between desperation and fear you can make people believe anything"

    "Is enlightenment even possible? Or, did I drive by it like a missed exit?"

    It's simpler than you think.

    I could be completely wrong"

  6. #66
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    Dec 1969
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    Reno, Nv, USA
    Posts
    2,833
    Ive recently read 3 books from something called "The Song of Fire and Ice."

    Good Stuff.

    Ill check it out. It is the holidays afterall!

    strike!

  7. #67
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    Ky Fi and Gene Ching,

    Speaking of Epee, I just started taking that a bit more seriously--getting some real lessons instead of just bouting. I'm not sure if it will be my cup of tea. With foil and the right-of-way, I feel like I have time to plan my attacks, but with Epee I just get poked in the godd&mn forearm before I know what's happened.
    Is there no right of way in epee? I understand that there's not with sabre, since it's such a free for all. Right of way is the part I'm having a hard time getting used to. My feeling is that if you're stabbed, you're stabbed. But I guess that's less useful a mindset if you're trying to regulate a sport and determine a winner.
    When you assume, you make an ass out of... pretty much just you, really.

  8. #68
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    Yenhoi,

    Most of the footwork I've done so far wouldn't look all that new to you, I don't think. (But I daresay there's a lot I haven't seen myself.)

    Advancing and retreating is done (not surprisingly) as it is in much of JKD. Advancing: Lead foot steps forward, rear foot steps forward. Retreating: Rear foot steps back, lead foot steps back.

    There's no sidestepping that I've seen, because you're staying on a narrow strip.

    Then there's the lunge. You pretty much know what that is, I expect. Sword and arm move first, then long step for the lunge.

    The rest (at least at my low level) is a question of combination. Two advances and a lunge. A retreat, advance, lunge. Etc.


    Stuart B.
    When you assume, you make an ass out of... pretty much just you, really.

  9. #69
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    -Thos. Zinn

    "Children, never fuss or fret
    Nor let unreason'd tempers rise
    Your little hands were never meant
    To pluck out one anothers eyes"
    -McGuffey's Reader

    “We are at a crossroads. One path leads to despair and the other to total extinction. I pray I have the wisdom to choose wisely.”


    ستّة أيّام يا كلب

  10. #70
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    In traditional fencing, would you also learn to circle?

    strike!

  11. #71
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    Originally posted by yenhoi
    In traditional fencing, would you also learn to circle?

    I'm almost sure of it.
    When you assume, you make an ass out of... pretty much just you, really.

  12. #72
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    Heh. There's actually a thread kicking around on one of the forums about this very question. Whether there are styles that teach the two-handed axe. If I come across it again, I'll know where to point him.

    Cheers.


    Stuart
    When you assume, you make an ass out of... pretty much just you, really.

  13. #73
    Originally posted by apoweyn
    Ky Fi and Gene Ching,



    Is there no right of way in epee? I understand that there's not with sabre, since it's such a free for all. Right of way is the part I'm having a hard time getting used to. My feeling is that if you're stabbed, you're stabbed. But I guess that's less useful a mindset if you're trying to regulate a sport and determine a winner.
    Actually, there is right of way in sabre. But no, there's no right of way in epee. Right of way was originally developed to simulate real combat; it was meant to discourage going for "double touch". Without right of way (as in epee) if you see your opponent making an attack on you, you can respond with an attack without worrying about defense as long as you get there first. In a real fight situation, of course, this is suicide; you'd wind up impaling your opponent as he impales you. Right of way was designed to simulate this, and force fencers to defend themselves against 'lethal' attacks before attempting a rejoinder.

    Epee has no right of way because epee fencing derives from a period when duels were not usually fought to the death, but to first blood. This is also why epee has no target restrictions, whereas foil and sabre restrict themselves to "lethal" areas.
    "hey pal, you wanna do the dance of destruction with the belle of the ball, just say the word." -apoweyn

  14. #74
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    Huh. Okay, now I'm interested in right of way. Before, I was thinking of it solely as a convention for determining who scored first. But as a training exercise, that makes more sense.

    Cheers.

    Sabre does have right of way. Okay. Now I know.

    Nobody in college mentioned right of way to me, so it's a new idea across the board. Thanks for filling me in.


    Stuart B.
    When you assume, you make an ass out of... pretty much just you, really.

  15. #75
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    Whether there are styles that teach the two-handed axe.
    Lum Br Jak system by Paul Bun Yan
    "George never did wake up. And, even all that talking didn't make death any easier...at least not for us. Maybe, in the end, all you can really hope for is that your last thought is a nice one...even if it's just about the taste of a nice cold beer."

    "If you find the right balance between desperation and fear you can make people believe anything"

    "Is enlightenment even possible? Or, did I drive by it like a missed exit?"

    It's simpler than you think.

    I could be completely wrong"

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