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Thread: Historical Fencing

  1. #76
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    More axe teachers, eh? And to think, the guy was stuck with 'glima' until now.

    When you assume, you make an ass out of... pretty much just you, really.

  2. #77
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    apoweyne, Staff-fighting seems fencing-ish. The front hand is a guide. The rear hand pulls the staff through the guide hand redirects the staff tip as one would a pool cue.. pulling and pushing can avoid parries. The side of the staff deflects incomming.

    Sidestepping in ~fencing...The point seems who's best at same line combat. To win at this is distance-deception. Stepping should be short-ish. With elbow at ribsweight on rear leg with a short stance but bent front leg. To appear weighted (deceive that you can't move back). From here, shift weight forward while keeping same leg bend(for the most part. Or parry keeping your arm short so that your true reach cannot be gagued (excpet guess~)

    Advance with front on center; short lunge to head; stepp rear foot off center (three to six inches); when you defend and yield back, not on your rear leg which would turn you;rear from front leg to make it seem as though you have both feet on center. Keep sword hilt on center. Quick pull of sword hand then shift to side ****hest from opponent (three or four inches) while bringing-up rear foot still off center (not passing heel of the front foot). Weight shift forward withOut stepyou are now thrusting off center. Hopefully this helps, and is an advantage you can learn to take.

    Making basics edgey makes Masters. If you are studying lunge then play with distance of step, weight when landing, parry when landing/or after hit/or recovering from parried attempt.And elbow extension with each movement, hold the thrust until after the weightshift.

    As for parrying, short power. Whacking with little effort to make a way clear to thrust.

    Push/pull do this drill to improve I might think.
    There are four lights... impulse...all donations can be sent at PayPal.com to qumpreyndweth@juno.com; vurecords.com

  3. #78
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    No_Know, how was the trip down south?
    "George never did wake up. And, even all that talking didn't make death any easier...at least not for us. Maybe, in the end, all you can really hope for is that your last thought is a nice one...even if it's just about the taste of a nice cold beer."

    "If you find the right balance between desperation and fear you can make people believe anything"

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  4. #79
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    Originally posted by apoweyn
    Ky Fi and Gene Ching,



    Is there no right of way in epee? I understand that there's not with sabre, since it's such a free for all. Right of way is the part I'm having a hard time getting used to. My feeling is that if you're stabbed, you're stabbed. But I guess that's less useful a mindset if you're trying to regulate a sport and determine a winner.
    Yep, FatherDog answered this well. There is ROW in foil and saber, and not in epee. And yes, it's kind of six of one, half-dozen of the other as far as which is more "realistic". Epee is realistic in that every touch, anywhere on the body, is acknowledged. Foil and saber could be considered more realistic because they only award strong, forceful attacks to vital areas. (I"m not getting into the "flick" )And, although sport fencing is based on real combat, and a lot of it could translate to real combat (speed, timing, blade control, conditioning, reflexes, combat mindset, strategy), in the end you're learning a sport, not a traditional martial art. But I have to say, I've played a lot of sports, and I don't think I've ever found anything as satisfying as landing a perfectly timed, on target, fully extended lunge at full speed against an opponent who's trying as hard as he can to stop you. Well, OK, OK---the kid was 12 years old---but I'm tellin' you I really kicked a$$, and I'm sure I would have done equally well against a 13 year-old.
    "Without tradition, art is a flock of sheep without a shepherd; without innovation it is a corpse." --Sir Winston Churchill

  5. #80
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    I found right of way the hardest thing to get in fencing, as well as resisting the urge to use all 4 limbs in attack
    cxxx[]:::::::::::>
    Behold, I see my father and mother.
    I see all my dead relatives seated.
    I see my master seated in Paradise and Paradise is beautiful and green; with him are men and boy servants.
    He calls me. Take me to him.

  6. #81
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    Thanks Ky Fi.

    In my defense (if it's my use of the flick you're referring to), it certainly wouldn't have done much damage. Even with a real sabre. But it was one of those freebie shots that you take en route to your real shot. I kinda feel that way about witik (flicking) attacks in general. Not a show stopper. But easy enough to stick into a motion you're already making. And good for creating openings, breaking rhythm, etc.

    If you're not referring to me, then forget what I just said. I'll follow suit.

    When you assume, you make an ass out of... pretty much just you, really.

  7. #82
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    Originally posted by joedoe
    I found right of way the hardest thing to get in fencing, as well as resisting the urge to use all 4 limbs in attack
    Believe me, the urge to land a quick shin kick is strong.
    When you assume, you make an ass out of... pretty much just you, really.

  8. #83
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    Right of Way

    Maestro Charles Selberg used to do this Right of Way challenge. He would face off with you with a live blade, take right of way, then bet his entire estate that you wouldn't lunge into his extending weapon. He never lost. He did it to me once and let me tell you, there's nothing like looking down the point of a sword in the hands of a master. Right of way is very logical. It replaces one of the factors that is missing in modern fencing - genuine fear of death. No one in their right mind would attack onto an extended weapon with out removing the blade.

    And I did read Amberger's book. I liked Cohen's By the Sword a little better. Amberger had a lot of greasy facts, the underbelly of fencing if you will. Cohen had a real solid writing tone, being a former publisher and all. He developed more suspense for a more readible work, IMO.

    The U.S. Army had a program through it's ROTC progrma at SJSU, primarily the work of Maitre William Gaugler, who loved everything traditional and found more support with the Army than the Phys. Ed. department. It was a unique program, specifically designed to train fencing masters, but it eventually collasped due to modern times. I was one of the last ones certified by it.
    Gene Ching
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    Author of Shaolin Trips
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  9. #84
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  10. #85
    Originally posted by Ky-Fi
    (I"m not getting into the "flick" )
    DIE, FLICKING BASTARDS! IF YOU WANTED TO USE A WHIP, YOU SHOULD HAVE BOUGHT ONE!

    Ahem.
    "hey pal, you wanna do the dance of destruction with the belle of the ball, just say the word." -apoweyn

  11. #86
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    Originally posted by FatherDog


    DIE, FLICKING BASTARDS! IF YOU WANTED TO USE A WHIP, YOU SHOULD HAVE BOUGHT ONE!

    Ahem.
    Don't get me started on the whip. Guy down in Richmond tried to teach me the whip once. Meh.
    When you assume, you make an ass out of... pretty much just you, really.

  12. #87
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    I should introduce you all to one of my previous place of employment

    Check out American Fencers supply. I worked there for several years, making swords in the Armoury. Their the best at what they do (although their best when their surly). If you want something about fencing, contact them. Ask for Maestro Yeti and sure, you can tell him Gene sent you.
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  13. #88
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    Originally posted by FatherDog


    DIE, FLICKING BASTARDS! IF YOU WANTED TO USE A WHIP, YOU SHOULD HAVE BOUGHT ONE!

    Ahem.
    I have mixed feelings about the flick. On the one hand, I don't personally use it because I feel it's martially unrealistic, and while I acknowledge that there are other aspects of the sport that are also martially unrealistic, this just goes too far for me. On the other hand, coming from a CMA background, I sort of think that it's like facing a flexible weapon, and I should have a high enough skill level with my sword to be able to defend against it---so I don't have a problem when it's used against me. Also, I have more respect for experienced fencers who have all the basics down pat, and just use the flick occasionally as one more technique. What I really hate is younger fencers who try to flick before they've learned basic point control and the traditional attacks and defenses. A couple months ago I literally almost had two fingers broken on my left (non-sword) hand from a wildly off-target flick from an intermediate fencer.

  14. #89
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    Hang on. So the flick really is a fencing maneuver?

    I thought it just referred to my efforts to do a witik with a sabre.

    Hmm...
    When you assume, you make an ass out of... pretty much just you, really.

  15. #90
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    apoweyn,

    Yes, the "flick" (or whip) is a big controversy in sport fencing these days as far as foil is concerned. As the blades have gotten more flexible for safety reasons over the last few decades, it's now possible to whip the point so drastically that it goes around the traditional parries, and the point still hits first(and depresses, if electric). It's frowned upon by many traditionalists, but it's not illegal and is fairly widely used in competition. Sometimes it's kind of subtle, but sometimes it gets ridiculous when people score flicks to the back of the opponent's shoulder or what have you.

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