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Thread: Baji

  1. #31
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    Tainan Mantis

    You might check out http://www.bajimen.com for your answers. But your right there in Taiwan. Why don't you check out the Wu Tang school there?
    Count

    Live it or live with it.

    KABOOOM

  2. #32
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    Tainan Mantis

    Tai zu quan of Liu Yun Qiao is very difficult to find. I have seen some of its movements demonstrated but know of no one teaching it in the curriculum of the Wu Tan(g) system.

    Its played as slow as standard Yang taijiquan and has very difficult one legged squats etc..

    If you find anyone in Taiwan teaching it, please post.

    Brad: I learned Master An's ba da zhao baji. Also have his xiao baji. If you can get him to teach you. His style is different from Wu Lian Zhi and ours but it is close enough. It is really nice. He knows some pretty interesting applications. Master An once put a young ****y Chinese waiter to the floor in one movement. The guy was teasing him about how much martial arts he knew. Never underestimate Master An.

  3. #33
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    Count: I was in New Mexico, visiting my sister over the christmas break. I'll be back on Saturday.

  4. #34
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    Come to the dark side COUNT come!!!!! (I'll convert you yet!)

    RAF,

    Thanks for the invite if/when I find myself in that neck of the woulds I will definitely look you up.

    I have serval books on baji, mostly in Japanese. I have own the centers around applications of the forms, "Hakkyokuken Sentouriron" by Aoki if you co here you can follow a this link http://w3.to/martial-art (arigato Hokuto-san) this have secitons of his book showing liudakai ZJ. Take a look and tell me what you think.
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Emperor of Baji!!!

    (Spellcheck by Chang Style Novice!)

  5. #35
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    Is Baji similair to Hsing-I?

  6. #36
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    Tai Tzu Chang Quan

    I too am researching Tai Tzu If anyone can help me set up contacts with its practitioners over seas, it would be most appreciated.

    Right now, I have several of the Southern sets, and one of the Northern sets. The line I have learned came from Chao Yuh Feng for the most part, but bits of Tai Tzu from other lines are in there as well.

    The Southern Tai Tzu has 6-8 empty hand forms total

    The Northern Tai Tzu has 8-12 empty hand forms total.

    Liu Yun Qiao's line apparently descended from the Ming dynasty and was a single form containig 300+ moves. I'm not sure if what I do is that form broken down into smaller peices, or just earlyer stages of the training. So far my stuff is external and fast in nature, but it could easily be done slowly too.

    If you go to my stie, I have some Info on the style. Some of the Chen style stuff i have is not entirely accurate and i plan to re do it now that I know more, but it's informative.

    If you go to http://www.dreamwater.net/biz/royald...changchuan.htm

    You will see I have a Tai Tzu form posted. It is the form from General Qi Jiguangs book written during the Ming Dynasty. it is suposed to be the original 32 move form invented by Chao, Kuang Yin. Liu Yun Qiao's form I suspect, represents Tai Tzu's advanced level of perfection. I'm still researching it, but I think all other Tai Tzu forms are ranked somewhere between the two.


    Royal Dragon
    Those that are the most sucessful are also the biggest failures. The difference between them and the rest of the failures is they keep getting up over and over again, until they finally succeed.


    For the Women:

    + = & a

  7. #37
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    I appreciate your post, Royal Dragon.

    I don't know much about Liu Yun Qiao's Tai Zu Quan except what has been posted by the Toronto site of Guo Laoshi and my own teacher.

    When I first started, I wanted to learn that system but no one else wanted to and at that time, we never asked our teacher for anything. You took what he gave.

    I also think that the form came from Liu's family bodyguard, the mi zong i master but don't know for sure.

    Its sad but I know of no one in the Wu Tan(g) system who teaches this and its probably lost. My own teacher is very quiet regarding it. My suspicion is that he may have it written down somewhere and not interested in teaching it.

    Re: Xing Yi and Baji. Similar in some training aspects and both employ the wu xing (five elements) but delivery of power and techniques are different. I have heard some say Xing Yi came from Baji and heard the other argument that Baji came from Xing Yi. I've given up on history. Too many twists and turns. One of the best guys I know in baji also does some of the Xing Yi and does it well. He says he feels very comfortable in it. My teacher knows the da qiang training of Xing Yi and demonstrated a bit of it. Its somewhat different. My teacher has always said if you have baji you don't need xing yi and if you have xing yi you don't need baji. The only think I like with the baji system is you can hook up with pigua zhang. I think for any system the most important thing is to get the very basic training.

    I always love Liu Yun Qiao's quote that Northern Chinese martial arts systems are all sons of the same mother.

    Asia: I don't know anything about the comics etc.. One of our students from Indonesia read them and it helped start his quest for baji. I heard they are mainly about Su Yu Chang since it was his student who created them. Maybe that's not correct, just what I heard.

    I'll check out your site.

  8. #38
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    Brad: I learned Master An's ba da zhao baji. Also have his xiao baji. If you can get him to teach you. His style is different from Wu Lian Zhi and ours but it is close enough. It is really nice. He knows some pretty interesting applications. Master An once put a young ****y Chinese waiter to the floor in one movement. The guy was teasing him about how much martial arts he knew. Never underestimate Master An.
    Lol, the problem is he'll teach us basically whatever we ask him It's too tempting to bounce around from style to style(esp. when we're all college age kids who want to learn EVERYTHING!). I took a month off from training(working ) and decided I have to buckle down and pick one thing and stick to it. In that first year I was with him I bounced around between 5 different styles(not including my Taiji which is constant). When I looked back I was like,"Wow, I now suck at 5 differnt styles!" I've decided Bajiquan is it. It's the first of 'em I tried and seemed to come the most naturaly(Xingyi too, but it felt harder on my knee ).
    Never underestimate Master An.
    You've got that right!

  9. #39
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    ASK HIM WILL YA!!!!!!!

    Just ask him to teach you the system.

    Heck, if he speaks english, give ME his number, and "I'LL" ask him!!!

    Mayby if you are respectful and nice, he will teach it to you. At the very least you should find out what the system consists of.

    Something you should know, Tai Tzu is an EXTERNAL style. Well, mostly. You see, the Chao family had an internal version of it that was closely gaurded. As far as I know the only aspect of it widely taught was the Taji Ruler. Even Chao, Yuh Feng who taught the system here in the US. actually taught alot of Taji Hsing I and Bagua. Very little of his family's internal Tai Tzu that I know of.

    Now I find out it is not only alive outside of the Chao family, but intact? I HAVE to get this set, and as much depth to it as I can, just because it's so rare!!!!

    My Guess, based on what little I know is Liu's family bodyguard must have had contacts with the Chao Family. Maybe he was a body guaurd for them at some point and learned the closed door aspect of Tai Tzu? I don't know, but this forms description fits the legends of Tai Tzu's internal version much better than the 64 and 37 move (looks like Yang) style Taji I was taught as being internal Tai Tzu.

    Any help tracking this down would be appreciated.

    Gian
    Those that are the most sucessful are also the biggest failures. The difference between them and the rest of the failures is they keep getting up over and over again, until they finally succeed.


    For the Women:

    + = & a

  10. #40
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    Royal Dragon

    I appreciate your thoughts, but I have been with him for over 13 years (I have also gone through the ke tou ceremony) and he is not interested in teaching it to anyone. He says he forgot the system, which is a pretty direct answer for me: you have enough material, don't bother me. He is right.

    I can only tell you that it is done slow, relaxed, and co-ordinated deep breathing and is very physically demanding (one legged squats done slowly).

    I hope you keep posting the material you find. I would be interested in seeing the form. Many years ago someone by the name of Dave Kash had a video out and it was reviewed in IKF. I regret never buying it at that time.

    Sorry to disappoint you about the tai zu quan.

  11. #41
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    Royal Dragon

    I've been with him for 13 years (ke tou ceremony, also). Asked about the system for many years and his answer is that he forgot it. Might be true, but I know he is not interested in teaching it or even discussing it.

    I can only add one last piece: 1) each movement is done slowly, 2) it is a physically demanding form (e.g. one legged squats, done slowly), and 3) breath follows the movements.

    I once had a chance to buy a tape on this by Dave Kash but failed to do so. In the mid 80s, many years before I had access to baji/pigua and the upper levels of our bagua, I was really interested in learning the form. The only interest I have in it now is to simply see it. If you know of any good videos, please post.

    Sorry to disappoint you.

  12. #42
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    That's Ok

    I have sources for further learning, I just want THIS perticular form because it appears to be the internal set from the system.

    I am currently learning Tai Tzu from Kash's younger martial brother. He is an inheritor to Chao's system. The problem I'm having, is it seems Chao taught more Hsing I, Bagua and Taji than Tai Tzu. This has led me on a quest to get the rest of the system. It's kind of cool, as I have been in contact with many Tai Tzu players (and a Master or two) over the last few years.


    Liu Yun Qiao's line seems to be the only one that is described in an internal sounding way, and I'm dying to get my grubby little hands on it.


    Basically Tai Tzu seems to be spread out. every one has a bit of all three external divisions, but no one has it all. Every one "I" talked to, specialise in an aspect of it. My Sifu is actively researching the areas he's less educated in, and getting results. In the end, I think he will eventually have a majority of it and I'm sure it will be passed on down to me.

    Royal Dragon
    Last edited by Royal Dragon; 01-09-2002 at 10:34 AM.
    Those that are the most sucessful are also the biggest failures. The difference between them and the rest of the failures is they keep getting up over and over again, until they finally succeed.


    For the Women:

    + = & a

  13. #43
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    Cool ttt for people who actually want to discuss kung fu.

    Nice try Asia, but 6 months of stomping and slamming trees is enough for me. You can keep that Baji. But when you get to LA I will show you some great stuff. BTW, if it was you who sent the tapes and VCD's, I hope there is no mindwashing subliminal messeges embeded in them.
    Count

    Live it or live with it.

    KABOOOM

  14. #44
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    Baji, Tournament, China Footage

    Bagua, Baji, China, Qingdao Footage
    Master Ma Long of WuTang USA has put out a new website with lots of great footage.

    If you to the Tournaments and Events demo, you will see the Hall of Fame Tournament and in the clippings (the film clip is long) you will see parts of the two man taiji sword, Jason Tsou's students demonstrating some two man bagua fighting, lan jie, 8 step, baji, pigua etc. Also, the baji sections shows a demonstration of GM Liu and scenes from near CangZhou, Hebei (home of baji).

    Other demos have clippings from Yellow Mountain (HuangShan) where some of the scenes from Crouching Tiger/Hidden Dragon were filmed.

    http://www.wutang.org/

    Great job on the footage!
    Last edited by RAF; 05-10-2002 at 05:46 AM.

  15. #45
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    Very cool Baji vid. includes old footage!!!

    http://www.wutang.org/styles/demo/baji_film.wmv

    Includes old photage of Wu-Tan's late grandmaster...

    RAF posted this on the internal forum, and I thought I'd bring it over here

    http://www.wutang.org

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