View Poll Results: What to do about the 'Is Shaolin-Do for real?' thread

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  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Merge all S-D threads together so it clears 1000 posts!

    22 38.60%
  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Let all the S-D threads stand independently.

    13 22.81%
  • Keep IS-Dfr locked down. All IS-Dfr posters deserved to be punished.

    5 8.77%
  • Delete them all. Let Yama sort them out.

    17 29.82%
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Thread: Is Shaolin-Do for real?

  1. #14671
    Quote Originally Posted by hskwarrior View Post
    WELL, I'LL ASK THIS, THEN I'LL TRY. iF I SHOWED UP TO PLAY A BASKETBALL GAME IN A BASEBALL OUTFIT WOULD ANYONE POINT, LAUGH AND STARE?

    I WOULD SAY YES. REGARDLESS IF THAT GUY IN THE BASEBALL OUTFIT COULD PLAY, PEOPLE WILL STILL ASK WHY THE BASEBALL OUTFIT? OR WHAT IF THE WHOLE BASKETBALL TEAM WORE LAB COATS. WHAT IF I SHOWED UP TO MY WEDDING WHILE EVERYONE ELSE HAS SUITS AND TUX'S ON, BUT I SHOWED UP IN A CLOWN OUTFIT. YOU WOULDN'T ASK WHY? I WOULD

    IN THE END, IT TELLS ME ABOUT YOUR TRAINING. WHETHER IT WAS AUTHENTIC, MADE UP, BORROWED, OR WHATEVER, IT WOULD INDICATE TO ME WHETHER YOU WERE PROPERLY TRAINED OR NOT.

    MAYBE IT ALL FALL DOWN TO BEING HONORABLE. WHO KNOWS. ITS STILL NOT WHAT IT SAYS IT IS IN MY OPINION. BUT WHO AM I RIGHT?
    funny...I would think the guy was trying to throw off your game , as long as he could play I wouldnt care. laughing at me, ha I have been laughed at all my life. BFD

    Clown outfit at a wedding , hilarious!! I would tell her that shes late for the strip show, it was last night!! your comparisons are ridiculous and not even applicable or compareable.

    funny just the same.

    funny story about Nikki Sixx from motley crue who stole his first guitar while asking for an application at a music store...goes to the band rehearsal he stole the guitar for and opens up the case to find out he stole a 6 string guitar instead of a 4 string bass guitar.... never stopped him from being a good musician, multiplatnum selling artists and rich as FUKC!

  2. #14672
    Quote Originally Posted by hskwarrior View Post
    lets see you wear a clown outfit to a wedding! Take pics. I need to laugh. But you know its dude. Its funny too. But i know you get the point.

    You know why you won't see the sh1t i mentioned, cause i won't happen. People know better.

    And i stand full 100% confident in my comment that all i see is karate from shaolin do. I don't see traditional chinese gung fu. I see japanese flavor. I don't see chinese flavor.

    Why do i feel this way? You mean after 30 years of being in the middle of authentic traditional chinese gung fu you don't think i'd know the difference? Are you serious? Nah you can't be serious. Come on man, stop playing with me.



    BUT HE NEVER GOT WHAT HE REALLY WANTED. GOT WHAT HE GOT AND WINGED IT.

    GUNG FU DOESN'T LOOK LIKE KARATE AND VICE VERSA.

    I'VE NEVER SEEN A TRUE CHINESE KUNG FU SCHOOL WITH TRACEABLE ROOTS LOOK LIKE KARATE IN MY ENTIRE LIFE.
    I believe you think you know what kung fu should look like from your perspective and from your roots and lineage . SD took a different path. If yours took a different path maybe you would be wearing karate gis and colored belts!! haha I believe it has karate , gung fu and kun tao/ silat flavor. the notes are the same, so is the job. it didnt matter that he had a guitar instead of a bass.

  3. #14673
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    so does the name shaolin-do mean 'the way of the forest of mount shaoshi? or is the word shaolin not supposed to be a direct translation for the style? i'm kind of curious now, if its supposed to be meaning like the way of the shaolin in terms of shaolin martial arts, how much beyond forms are you following in the way of shaolin traditions? and how many of the forms are just like the shaolin material?
    Last edited by Lucas; 09-14-2012 at 12:55 PM.
    For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.

  4. #14674
    Quote Originally Posted by Leto View Post
    The fact is, no one really knows where it came from before Indonesia, and researching anything more is pretty much impossible without Sin The's cooperation.
    And that isn't a massive red flag to you? Why does he not cooperate? How do you know Sin The didn't make it up, or learn a few half assed forms from other friends who were themselves novice students then he took this, called it his Indonesian Chinese gong fu and supplemented the few forms he had with stuff from books? Sin The has never studied any Japanese MA's? If the answer is no, where did all the Japanese terminology come from? Everything about the present suggests the past is highly suspect, if not outright fraudulent.

    Are there any competing shaolin do cats who only know shaolin do and never trained anything else? Anyone successful, that is???

  5. #14675
    Quote Originally Posted by Judge Pen View Post
    So if a style without a verifiable linage creates a good fighter, than the style is good?

    If a family member lied to you would you expose them as frauds?
    If a family member lied to me on the level that SD lies to it's "clients", I would be the first to expose them.

    Can you prove that SD has created any good fighters?

    Remember, you can't use somebody who practices multiple disciplines as an example. Has anyone who ONLY learned SD ever done anything provable? Anything? Show me a fight record, A video, A well respected FIGHTER giving props to SD? ANYTHING?

  6. #14676
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syn7 View Post
    ...

    Can you prove that SD has created any good fighters?

    Remember, you can't use somebody who practices multiple disciplines as an example. Has anyone who ONLY learned SD ever done anything provable? Anything? Show me a fight record, A video, A well respected FIGHTER giving props to SD? ANYTHING?
    As far as I'm aware there are no professional fighters who have only trained SD.

    What other kind of "provable" fighting evidence are you looking for? Is it sufficient to have cases where somebody defended themselves in the street successfully, or does that not qualify?

  7. #14677
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    ive defended myself successfully but i dont consider myself a successful fighter, because i dont fight other fighters in a public venue. i do consider those incidents as successful self defense situations that proved my training has been a benefit though. so yes that is a good thing that people can use their art to defend themselves. did sin the ever fight? like muay thai or sanda or american kickboxing?
    For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.

  8. #14678
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    How Many

    How many on here who gives accolades to their current system of practice has never ever seen another MA and taken something and used it to better their fighting skills? I would say None. I will say this SD made me a better fighter and yes I was already pretty good , so I have been told . So I dont know if that answers your question but thats the way it is. Just because you fight in a ring dont make you a good fighter , real fighting isnt in a ring. KC
    A Fool is Born every Day !

  9. #14679
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwaichang View Post
    How many on here who gives accolades to their current system of practice has never ever seen another MA and taken something and used it to better their fighting skills? I would say None. I will say this SD made me a better fighter and yes I was already pretty good , so I have been told . So I dont know if that answers your question but thats the way it is. Just because you fight in a ring dont make you a good fighter , real fighting isnt in a ring. KC
    Well said KC.

    This has been another criticism of SD that has come up again and again in this thread and never seems to go anywhere. If SD shows a good fighter, the opponents say, "Well you can have good fighters come out of a sh!tty system because they just know how to fight!" If some weak SD sparring or fighter is shown the the opponents say, "HA! See! SD is a sh!tty system!"

    IMO SD practitioners would do better to enter more open sparring tournaments but I don't believe that the # of professional fighters with a SD background is that relevant. It seems to be more of a numbers game than anything. That being said, I wouldn't recommend somebody in SD to go enter a bunch of open tournaments without first showing some success in the Lexington tournaments. Build your own foundation first, then test it against other styles.

  10. #14680
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    is this what you call good fighters?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29HzSE9Ov08
    That sparring made me sad and vomit in my mouth. Those brown belts fought like white belts

  11. #14681
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaolin_allan View Post
    That sparring made me sad and vomit in my mouth. Those brown belts fought like white belts
    I remember exactly when that clip went up. The girl in the vid filmed herself and posted on Youtube. It (understandably) got all sorts of negative criticism both inside and outside of SD. Not sure why she felt the need to post it, but obviously this is not the gold standard for sparring.

  12. #14682
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    The Honor parts

    Quote Originally Posted by Syn7 View Post
    Yeah but they aren't all equal in their damage. All cultures are a mix of good and bad, some worse than others. The Bushido code is one of the most ignorant approaches to righteousness I have ever seen. I can name a few more just as bad and a ton more that vary as to how bad they are, but Bushido was talked about in this thread.

    I guess it depends on how you define honor, but for the most part it's all prideful garbage.
    I guess, in the sense ancient Chivalry also had its good and bad, with Bushido I guess I'd have to reject the parts about if I dishonor my master or sensei or whatever I have to die or something.

    But you can't argue against the parts about honesty, loyalty to freinds and family (even if the includes a school, kwoon, dojo, etc.), striving to live a virtuous and clean life, defending the weak, hard work towards a worthy goal, things like that. And you don't have to call it Bushido to still strive to walk that path.
    Last edited by One student; 09-15-2012 at 04:52 PM. Reason: spelling
    Just One Student

    "I seek, not to know all the answers, but to understand the questions." --- Kwai Chang Caine

    (I'd really like to know all the answers, too, but understanding the questions, like most of my martial arts practice, is a more realistically attainable goal)

  13. #14683
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    Differences

    Quote Originally Posted by Syn7 View Post
    Noticing the differences comes from experience, which you freely admit you don't understand. You won't understand until after you have the experience. Then it will be obvious. Think of all your parents tell you when you're a kid then when you grow up you see they actually did know what they were talking about. It's all about experience.

    HSK, anyone well acquainted with CMA's would have had the same thoughts based on the title alone. We all did, you aren't alone there. Shaolin-Do screams of fraud. Again, it takes experience to see that.
    I was taught and trained in Tien Shien Pai class for about a year, and took extra lessons with the school's Grandmaster on weekends, including in Hsing Ie, a Monkey form, a Chi Kung (Qui Gong) class, and a couple weapons (short stick and Dao broadsword). From the beginner class on, the curriculum and method of training and teaching was not that different from SD classes-- and the Hsing Ie was nearly identical.
    Just One Student

    "I seek, not to know all the answers, but to understand the questions." --- Kwai Chang Caine

    (I'd really like to know all the answers, too, but understanding the questions, like most of my martial arts practice, is a more realistically attainable goal)

  14. #14684
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    Uniforms

    Quote Originally Posted by tattooedmonk View Post
    this is how I understand it...http://www.chingyikungfu.com/index.php?m=49 besides the story as told by GMT about chinese martial arts being outlawed in Indonesia.
    From that page, this about says it all:

    "As for wearing an actual belt, this is again pretty much a matter of individual preference. Most practitioners of the Ching Yi System wear either what has come to be popularly known in martial arts circles as a "Kung Fu jacket" of the Ch'ing Dynasty (1644-1911) design, or just a CYKFA T-shirt, and loose-fitting pants. In that case, the thick cotton belts used by other martial arts styles seem to be rather cumbersome and restrictive to the physical movements in Kung Fu. Some practitioners will therefore instead opt for a colored sash to denote their rank, or simply wear no belt at all.

    On the other hand, if a particular CYKFA instructor chooses the old Ming Dynasty (1368-1644) style of uniform (the open-front, "crossover" jacket like the Japanese martial arts "gi" or Korean "dobok"), the standard cotton belts are more practical. There is no such thing as a "traditional Kung Fu uniform."

    The masters of old wore the clothing of their day, and trained in whatever was comfortable. Ching Yi students follow their example; function rules over fashion. Therefore, a CYKFA instructor might just wear a T-shirt and pants for everyday training, a Ch'ing-style jacket with no belt for a public Pa Kua or T'ai Chi demonstration, and a Ming-style jacket and rank belt when giving a performance of self-defense techniques, throws and grappling."
    Just One Student

    "I seek, not to know all the answers, but to understand the questions." --- Kwai Chang Caine

    (I'd really like to know all the answers, too, but understanding the questions, like most of my martial arts practice, is a more realistically attainable goal)

  15. #14685
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    SD History

    Quote Originally Posted by tattooedmonk View Post
    kentucky in the 60's? haha funny. maybe on the coasts but in the south? yikes
    Everyone who has seen the older posts on this forum know this, but for HSK: When GMT came to U.S. in the 60's, there was no school but Lexington, Ky. No coasts or south, that came much much later. GMT said he retained the gi/belts, and the terminolgy more common to Karate, to honor his teacher, Ie Chang Ming, who used them at his school in Bandung, Indonesia, where Chinese traditions, customs and appearances were discriminated against. No, they weren't outlawed in US, but he kept them to respect his teacher's "tradition," something HSK by the way has preached to us a lot. Later, in the 80's, some of the SD branch schools opted, I understand with GMT's consent, to abandon the gi's/belts for their current look (what a lot of people think are "traditional" kung fu uniforms, although there is no such thing), and also much of the terminology, some even going with "Shaolin Tao."
    Last edited by One student; 09-15-2012 at 04:57 PM. Reason: missed a point
    Just One Student

    "I seek, not to know all the answers, but to understand the questions." --- Kwai Chang Caine

    (I'd really like to know all the answers, too, but understanding the questions, like most of my martial arts practice, is a more realistically attainable goal)

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