View Poll Results: What to do about the 'Is Shaolin-Do for real?' thread

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  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Merge all S-D threads together so it clears 1000 posts!

    22 38.60%
  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Let all the S-D threads stand independently.

    13 22.81%
  • Keep IS-Dfr locked down. All IS-Dfr posters deserved to be punished.

    5 8.77%
  • Delete them all. Let Yama sort them out.

    17 29.82%
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Thread: Is Shaolin-Do for real?

  1. #14086
    not comprehensive, i know, but a quick google search found only a few Wushu schools in Bandung, none of which touted any lineage through Ie Chang Ming

    also here is a weird site, I guess it's Sin The's brother's site but it talks about Ming being his grandfather and mentions other contemporaries
    http://www.angelfire.com/ego/shaolinwarrior/Hiang.html
    Last edited by Orion Paximus; 03-29-2012 at 05:41 AM.

  2. #14087
    That is not Master Hiang's site. His site is: www.centralshaolin.com

  3. #14088
    In 1992 there was a large joint demonstration with a bunch of US students under Sin The' and several of his colleagues students who learned from Ie Chang Ming in Bandung. One of the Bandung students performed the brown belt broadsword form. There was a series of posts about this almost 5 years ago.
    http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/foru...postcount=5948

  4. #14089
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJ797 View Post
    I don't think Sin The' made up everything on the tape he submitted for copyright. I think that tape represents most, if not everything he learned in Indonesia. When his brother came to the States he already had this material. Sin The' frequently told the story of the brothers going through the "lower belt" material to confirm they both were teaching the same thing and having to call Ie Chang Ming to settle disputes. If Sin The' invented this stuff upon his arrival in the States how did Hiang get it and how could there be any debate about what was right?
    If this is true, then he lied under oath to protect a business investment. He stated, in no uncertain terms, that he created this material, it was not what Ie taught him and it is not traditional kung fu. Lying under oath is worse in my mind.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

  5. #14090
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJ797 View Post
    In 1992 there was a large joint demonstration with a bunch of US students under Sin The' and several of his colleagues students who learned from Ie Chang Ming in Bandung. One of the Bandung students performed the brown belt broadsword form. There was a series of posts about this almost 5 years ago.
    http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/foru...postcount=5948
    I seen that video. It was very close to what we do.

  6. #14091
    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    now that the question of SD being "real" has been answered, how r we going to stretch this baby out to 1,000 pages?
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    Surely this thread deserves a special DAFFY award!

    joy chaudhuri

  7. #14092
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    what now

    Do the teachers of SD still teach it as it is or change it and teach the so called real forms as a System unto itself? Or what? SD teachers what do you think what are You going to do, Be TRuthful and go from there or teach it as it is or what? KC
    A Fool is Born every Day !

  8. #14093
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    i will keep teaching what i teach , i will start to talk about when it was made and what it takes us to, which is the real issue to me. i have been going over alot of it this week and thinking, i love these moves and i have gotten alot out of them,, so....
    ...or is there something i have missed a glimpse of phantoms in the mist. Traveling down a dusty road bent forward with this heavy load..

  9. #14094
    What to do from here? Teach proper structure and mechanics. The Shaolin-Do teachers who have relied on the grandiose stories about lineage and 900 forms will probably struggle because they most likely don't really have any true understanding of fundamentals.

    Unfortunately, our system is over populated with people who just want to see the next form and not really develop an understanding of the basics. Too much of our system's politics have revolved around repeating the sequence of moves Sin The' has shown and then arguing about whether someone did the right move. Not whether or not what they did made any martial sense.

    Sin The' has never been good at doing the exact same thing each time but the Bill Leonards and the Soards of our world insist the only "right" way is the way they believe they were shown - regardless of quality. Bill Leonard is a great fighter but his understanding and performance of Tai Chi and Pa Kua is not very good. Yet, most of our system will blindly follow and do what they are being taught regardless of the obvious fact that it's not very good.

    So, what's going to happen? The people who questioned, analyzed and taught solid mechanics but downplayed the "stories" - may survive. Those who built a house cards with the stories and blindly taught material they didn't really understand are going to have a tough time.

  10. #14095
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJ797 View Post
    What to do from here? Teach proper structure and mechanics. The Shaolin-Do teachers who have relied on the grandiose stories about lineage and 900 forms will probably struggle because they most likely don't really have any true understanding of fundamentals.

    Unfortunately, our system is over populated with people who just want to see the next form and not really develop an understanding of the basics. Too much of our system's politics have revolved around repeating the sequence of moves Sin The' has shown and then arguing about whether someone did the right move. Not whether or not what they did made any martial sense.

    Sin The' has never been good at doing the exact same thing each time but the Bill Leonards and the Soards of our world insist the only "right" way is the way they believe they were shown - regardless of quality. Bill Leonard is a great fighter but his understanding and performance of Tai Chi and Pa Kua is not very good. Yet, most of our system will blindly follow and do what they are being taught regardless of the obvious fact that it's not very good.

    So, what's going to happen? The people who questioned, analyzed and taught solid mechanics but downplayed the "stories" - may survive. Those who built a house cards with the stories and blindly taught material they didn't really understand are going to have a tough time.
    Very well said.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

  11. #14096
    It was very obvious. By teaching huge blocks of material in a crowded room in an absurdly small amount of time, all the focus was on memorizing the moves with no time or interest in making sense out of and developing skill with anything.

  12. #14097
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJ797 View Post
    It was very obvious. By teaching huge blocks of material in a crowded room in an absurdly small amount of time, all the focus was on memorizing the moves with no time or interest in making sense out of and developing skill with anything.
    If you watch this

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOi63m2nwbM

    and can't tell it was made up in someone's living room while NCIS was on, you deserve to be duped.
    He most honors my style who learns under it to destroy the teacher. -- Walt Whitman

    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    As a mod, I don't have to explain myself to you.

  13. #14098
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    my favorite is when he slaps his knee over and over.
    For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.

  14. #14099
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    Yeah that's a knee slapin' good form right there I tell ya what.

    Better yet how about using 2 canes like tonfa?
    When seconds count the cops are only minutes away!

    Quote Originally Posted by wenshu View Post
    Sorry, sometimes I forget you guys have that special secret internal sauce where people throw themselves and you don't have to do anything except collect tuition.

  15. #14100
    1992. The vs Hamilton lawsuit. Hiang The produce in court all the original note he have from 1960's before he leave Indonesia. Every piece his brother claim to make up, Hiang have note to prove him wrong. The record are seal but Hiang go against his brother and stand for the true.

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