View Poll Results: What to do about the 'Is Shaolin-Do for real?' thread

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  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Merge all S-D threads together so it clears 1000 posts!

    22 38.60%
  • Unlock IS-Dfr. Let all the S-D threads stand independently.

    13 22.81%
  • Keep IS-Dfr locked down. All IS-Dfr posters deserved to be punished.

    5 8.77%
  • Delete them all. Let Yama sort them out.

    17 29.82%
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Thread: Is Shaolin-Do for real?

  1. #13531
    .................................
    Last edited by Old Man; 03-09-2010 at 10:10 AM.

  2. #13532
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    ^ lol:d:d:d:d

    I am pork boy, the breakfast monkey.

    left leg: mild bruising. right leg: charley horse

    handsomerest member of KFM forum hands down

  3. #13533
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    anyone have any insite... real that is ,, into the new form?
    ...or is there something i have missed a glimpse of phantoms in the mist. Traveling down a dusty road bent forward with this heavy load..

  4. #13534
    ..............................
    Last edited by Old Man; 03-09-2010 at 10:09 AM.

  5. #13535

    Long Time

    Been a while. Hey JP, BQ, all! I haven't gotten on here much at all since I changed jobs but I had heard a bit about what happened out east with EM Soard. Still, training hard out east, most in my school had no idea of all the school upheavel. In any case, it's good to get caught up with the latest info. I hope you're all doing well.

    A couple of pages back, folks were talking about the martial arts in the Holmes movie. Downey may be a WC guy but Holmes the character practised a martial art called Bartitsu, which was founded by a guy, Barton-Wright, who studied ju jitsu in Japan and combined it with stick fighting and other martial concepts from, wait for it, Indonesia, and with western boxing. He opened a martial arts institute in England, which ultimately failed. The institute and what went on there was very much a mixed martial arts culture. There's a guy, Tony Wolf, who's done quite a bit of historical research on Bartitsu. It's fascinating stuff.

    In any case, I hope you're all well. SD pracitioners of any sub-lineage are pretty much welcome in our neighborhood so if you're ever in DC, drop a line.

  6. #13536
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    "Fight Quest" from Bandung, Indonesia

    And, if any of you are interested, the TV show "Fight Quest" recently featured Pencak Silat, and filmed from GMS's hometown, Bandung. Interesting fighters and teachers.
    Just One Student

    "I seek, not to know all the answers, but to understand the questions." --- Kwai Chang Caine

    (I'd really like to know all the answers, too, but understanding the questions, like most of my martial arts practice, is a more realistically attainable goal)

  7. #13537
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    Haven't checked in on this thread in several years. Nice to see that it's still running. I might stop by in a few years for the reunion.

    Oh yeah, and since I'm here, I guess I should give the obligatory shaolin-do sucks.

    EO

  8. #13538
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Olson View Post
    Haven't checked in on this thread in several years. Nice to see that it's still running. I might stop by in a few years for the reunion.

    Oh yeah, and since I'm here, I guess I should give the obligatory shaolin-do sucks.

    EO
    wait this thread has been going for that many years

    I am pork boy, the breakfast monkey.

    left leg: mild bruising. right leg: charley horse

    handsomerest member of KFM forum hands down

  9. #13539
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    Quote Originally Posted by goju View Post
    wait this thread has been going for that many years
    Since September 29th, 2004 to be exact....and has the question been answered? Is Shaolin-do "for real"?

    EO

  10. #13540
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    well,

    I found it to be more real than some of the other places I went to afterwards. I demoed a couple karate places and a hapkido place, and the first techniques they showed me were laughable. While yes I would agree that there is alot of fluff being taught at the CSCs, but I found a good amount of it to be usefull. The sparring strategy and techniques taught there have really helped me spar these Muay Thai cats.

    Id say its real enough...how bout that

  11. #13541
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Olson View Post
    Since September 29th, 2004 to be exact.

    good lord i had no idea

    I am pork boy, the breakfast monkey.

    left leg: mild bruising. right leg: charley horse

    handsomerest member of KFM forum hands down

  12. #13542
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    Quote Originally Posted by goju View Post
    good lord i had no idea
    Why doesn't that surprise me?
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

  13. #13543
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    Quote Originally Posted by Facepalm View Post
    well,

    I found it to be more real than some of the other places I went to afterwards. I demoed a couple karate places and a hapkido place, and the first techniques they showed me were laughable. While yes I would agree that there is alot of fluff being taught at the CSCs, but I found a good amount of it to be usefull. The sparring strategy and techniques taught there have really helped me spar these Muay Thai cats.

    Id say its real enough...how bout that
    Facepalm - I would have to agree with you. IT"S REAL ENOUGH.

    Is a real Martial Art - YES , is it real old school traditional kung fu - umm, NO - it's a hybrid. is that a bad thing, no it's not. Heck, of all the people I've crossed hands with the best by far was someone who was a Guru Muda in KunTao Silat and that's a hybrid system.

    When I trained at the CSC back in the late 80s and 90s ('86-'94) It definately was better than some places and not as hard core as others, but I did pick up some good things which helped me with sparring in the future as well.

    I can only speak for the CSC and not the rest of SD, but when I started it was a little school that trained hard, didin't have 10,000 forms, and did hard sparring (sure there still was fluff, what MA don't), but one of the reasons I left was that I was becoming dissapointed in how they seemed to be slowly watering down the teachings (Less conditioning, less drilling, softer sparing, and advancing people that just shouldn't advance). Then years later '99 I went back to take a few classes and it was a shock to see what it had become, definately on it's way to McDojohood.

    To me CSC/ SD has a lot to offer if they would reflect back and stop trying to advance everyone under the sun, learn 50,000 forms , bring back good 'ol hard sparring and conditioning and slow down and work on fundementals. Oh, and I think they need to embrace the fact they are a hybrid and not the "real" Shaolin that was lost to time, there are many hybrids that are respected - because they train and fight hard.

    If they are listening at CSC/ SD.......Be Honest, Train hard, and work on the fundementals, and maybe you can get some of your respect back.

  14. #13544
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    Quote Originally Posted by SnowDog View Post
    Facepalm - I would have to agree with you. IT"S REAL ENOUGH.

    Is a real Martial Art - YES , is it real old school traditional kung fu - umm, NO - it's a hybrid. is that a bad thing, no it's not. Heck, of all the people I've crossed hands with the best by far was someone who was a Guru Muda in KunTao Silat and that's a hybrid system.

    When I trained at the CSC back in the late 80s and 90s ('86-'94) It definately was better than some places and not as hard core as others, but I did pick up some good things which helped me with sparring in the future as well.

    I can only speak for the CSC and not the rest of SD, but when I started it was a little school that trained hard, didin't have 10,000 forms, and did hard sparring (sure there still was fluff, what MA don't), but one of the reasons I left was that I was becoming dissapointed in how they seemed to be slowly watering down the teachings (Less conditioning, less drilling, softer sparing, and advancing people that just shouldn't advance). Then years later '99 I went back to take a few classes and it was a shock to see what it had become, definately on it's way to McDojohood.

    To me CSC/ SD has a lot to offer if they would reflect back and stop trying to advance everyone under the sun, learn 50,000 forms , bring back good 'ol hard sparring and conditioning and slow down and work on fundementals. Oh, and I think they need to embrace the fact they are a hybrid and not the "real" Shaolin that was lost to time, there are many hybrids that are respected - because they train and fight hard.

    If they are listening at CSC/ SD.......Be Honest, Train hard, and work on the fundementals, and maybe you can get some of your respect back.
    I would agree with just about all of this. The two main reasons for SD becoming the watered down version of what it was 1) putting learning forms over sparring and conditioning. I know when Master Leonard got his 4th black he didn't know but maybe half of what is required now! And he could fight! Most of what is being presented now in seminars was not learned by GM sin when he was training in my opinion. 2) people getting promoted to master that have no business being called masters. This all comes down to money. And its making a mockery of what was a very respectable fighting art.
    As far as being a hybrid art...maybe, I'm still not sure. I still like calling it old kung fu. I've seen videos of students of GM sin's conterparts in indonesia and can say that much of our early material is legit as far as what was taught in indonesia. I even seen them perform our brown belt broadsword form, very cool. For SD to stay alive they're going to have to get control of who they promote and focus on what forms they have instead of learning the next top secret form that will change everything! People come on! If it was that good then why wait 40 years to teach it? Also sparring and conditioning. Without a good amount of each forms won't mean anything!

  15. #13545
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    Videos?

    Quote Originally Posted by bodhi warrior View Post
    I would agree with just about all of this. The two main reasons for SD becoming the watered down version of what it was 1) putting learning forms over sparring and conditioning. I know when Master Leonard got his 4th black he didn't know but maybe half of what is required now! And he could fight! Most of what is being presented now in seminars was not learned by GM sin when he was training in my opinion. 2) people getting promoted to master that have no business being called masters. This all comes down to money. And its making a mockery of what was a very respectable fighting art.
    As far as being a hybrid art...maybe, I'm still not sure. I still like calling it old kung fu. I've seen videos of students of GM sin's conterparts in indonesia and can say that much of our early material is legit as far as what was taught in indonesia. I even seen them perform our brown belt broadsword form, very cool. For SD to stay alive they're going to have to get control of who they promote and focus on what forms they have instead of learning the next top secret form that will change everything! People come on! If it was that good then why wait 40 years to teach it? Also sparring and conditioning. Without a good amount of each forms won't mean anything!
    Bodhi Warrior:

    You know, you could make good money showing those videos to those (us) who would love to see them but have not. Or if you're not into that, you could make some good Karma. Or get brownie points. Or just make some poor lowly deprived interested persons very happy. I thought it was interesting when the TV show "Fight Quest" filmed a show on Penjat Silat, in Bandung (GMS's home town). Seeing the films you're talking about would be even better.
    Just One Student

    "I seek, not to know all the answers, but to understand the questions." --- Kwai Chang Caine

    (I'd really like to know all the answers, too, but understanding the questions, like most of my martial arts practice, is a more realistically attainable goal)

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