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Thread: Shaolin Temple

  1. #16
    YoungForest Guest
    Chinese, Russian, and Cuban governments are NOT communists. Real communism is not what is beeing led in these countries.

    I highly recommand researching on marxism which IS real communism and you will see that it is very very different from these goverments.

  2. #17
    Ky-Fi Guest
    There was a story about when a US president met the Chinese premiere (I don't remember which administration), and the Chinese leader admitted that a farmer will stay up all night with a sick hog if it's his own, but he won't bother if the hog belongs to the commune. That's what's wrong with Marx's theories in a nutshell, in my opinion--a fundamental misreading of human nature.
    I will say in Marx's defense that at the time he was writing, Capitalism WAS pretty horrible. But, he failed to foresee the rise of organized labor unions and elected officials passing laws mitigating the worst aspects of Capitalism---like child labor laws, workplace safety laws, minimum wage, anti-disrimination laws, Social Security, Welfare, Medicare/Medicaid, Unemployment benefits, maternity leave, Anti-trust/monopoly laws, product and food safety standards, etc...

  3. #18
    GinSueDog Guest

    kull

    Just as a side note it is illegal in China to follow the Dahlia Lama or to be Roman Catholic. In fact they normally jail and put into labor camps any Roman Catholics found practicing in China several priest have spent several years behind bars and in force labor camps. This is a proven fact, communism may not be evil but something is up with that government.-ED

    "The grappling arts imply most fights end up on the ground...take them there. The striking arts imply all fights start standing up...keep them there. The mixed martial arts imply any fight can go anywhere...be ready and able to go everywhere."-a mix martial artist

  4. #19
    old jong Guest

    Communist monks?

    Just something I heard...The shaolin monks touring the world and giving demonstrations everywhere would be in reality SOLDIERS!!!
    Could that be true? :eek:
    ("Take the bullet from my hand grasshopper!") :D

    C'est la vie!

  5. #20
    Taijimantis Guest

    Thank you, that was all I was trying to say...

    Interestingly labor unions are socialist in nature. Many of the other programs you were referred to were not set into place untill the end of the depression. It should also be noted that capitalism is far from perfect. (I mentioned Socrates' idea so please dont think I am defending or opposing anything I am with the old dead Greek guy.)
    Our richest 1% in America's financial resources vastly outweighes every other economic class' resources in the country combined! The class division is only getting wider, and it is because of what Ky-Fi mentioned about the farmer and his pig. Everyone is watching out for their own interests.

    In a sociology class I had in college we did an "island expariment" similar I am sure to many such social science classes. We tried to set up a governing body for a group of castaways.

    The professor noted that the expariment was part of a separite project she was working on, and the results were of all the classes she had assigned this "island expariment" nearly 100% of the time the resulting form of government was based in true communism.

    I thought that was interesting...

  6. #21
    old jong Guest

    Please camarades!

    Is that a forum on kung fu or political science?
    The topic was "Are these guys pulling logs attached to their balls and praying standing on their heads for real?" :rolleyes:

    C'est la vie!

  7. #22
    mantis108 Guest

    USS Enterprise

    In a way, Communist ideology exists in the pop culture of US of A. USS Enterprise, IMHO, is a reflection of such a community. Goods and sevices are exchanged freely on board of this marvellous ship. But then again it doesn't have the main stream support.

    Communists in China came to power with a lot of luck and was perceived by the grass root level a lesser evil of the two "at the time". They got the blessing of mostly unedcated commoners. In reality though, they've done more harm than good. How could you ask a government which was composed of uneducated and uncultured officials to respect culture and traditions. It is like playing piano to a bull. This is why they fear any form , civil, martial, or spiritual, of education. If true be told they were and are no difference to scandalous thieves and robbers ( my grandfather termed it that way).

    I always stress on a point that the strength of Chinese people is not some foriegn ideology and political might but the cultural integrity and community spirit. Being somewhat of a Taoist, I don't believe in centralization or one form of ideology is better than another. Good and evil is just two side of the same coin. Leave it be.

    As for Shaolin temple and monks today, I tend to agree that they are Cirque du Shaolin.

    "Beam me up, Scotty, Kurt out."

    Mantis108

    Contraria Sunt Complementa

    [This message was edited by mantis108 on 12-29-00 at 06:41 PM.]

  8. #23
    Braden Guest
    *boggle*

  9. #24
    reemul Guest

    Outside inside crap

    Thats what they tell the inquisitive to keep them interrested.

  10. #25
    KickingMantis Guest

    Back to the issue of Shaolin

    People still believe in the legend that Shaolin is the mother of all martial arts or had a great role to play in history of Chinese martial arts which is actually not true. It is fact that they did practice and study kung fu it is obvious in all the drawings and writings upon the walls within the temple.

    However, In reality most of what we think of in terms of Shaolin is merely a fairy tale.

    The truth is that Shaolin was a Zen Buddhist temple and that is pretty much where it ends. We hear of the story where Ta Mo left India and went to Shaolin (The Liang Dynasty,506-56A.D.)and taught the monks Buddhism and realized that they had no exercise for the physical body and taught them a series of exercises and that was the basis for Kung Fu.

    China had organized warfare and fighting skills way before the Liang Dynasty, the time Ta Mo is said to have come to the temple.

    During other periods in China, long before the Liang Dynasty, such as the Warring States Period, there were hundreds of wars. War tactics were continously being developed and improved. there is alo proof of Chinese Martial Arts existence before Shaolin during the Three Kingdoms Period (A.D.211).

    Shaolin was definitely a famous Buddhist temple, if Ta Mo taught exercises there is still not proven or debatable. Before he arrived to Shaolin there were individuals practicing kung fu there already. Many of the monks at the temple were men arriving at the temple seeeking refuge. Many ofthem were criminals. Many of them had some kung fu technique already and Shaolin was a perfect place to work on further developments.

    they lived simple lives and had plenty of time to practice their arts and exchange ideas. Because of this, it may have caused the kung fu at Shaolin to improve or become sophisticated but never was it considered to be a place to go and learn Kung Fu like a school.

    Someone earlier on the forum stated some reasons why they were going to leave their school, one of the reasons was because the instructor stated that he only taught the staff because it was the only weapon used by the ancestors. there may be truth to this if it is a so-called Shaolin style.

    The most famous weapon there was the staff. Any or most Chinese or other styles, one first learns the staff. It is the most fundamental, basic, inexpensive,but yet effective weapon of the time.

    In reality, Shaolin was a Zen Buddhist Temple, It was considered a holy place and no weapons were allowed. As with most Churches, Courts, and Hospitals. There are several things that you do not handle or behaviors you do not do. Therefore the staff became an effetive weapon in Kung Fu that was practiced at Shaolin.

    It is known that shaolin got its fame during the Tang Dynasty by helping the government put down a rebellion and for their assistance they were honored by the government.

    After the Tang dynasty many civil wars, uprisings and rebellions broke out and it is not known whether Shaolin assisted in these are not. However, it was claimed by many people involved in these civil wars and uprisins that they claimed that they were from Shaolin.

    During the Ming Dynasty, which is an important period for Chinese Martial Artists, A General by the name of Kwong wrote a book, after extensive research in kung fu, in order to better train his soldiers and there was no mention of Shaolin Kung Fu.

    During the Qing/Ching Dynasty, Shaolin was neither popular or was it famous.However, during this period it began to be greatly known because of secret societies that connected themselves with the temple. By doing this, their sense of purpose, to overthrow the Manchus' was now something holy.

    A lot of fiction novels helped to popularize Shaolin as a fighting system. They ahve implicated that there were many Temples. Fukien,GuangDong,Henan,Siquan and other other provines. There is evidence of only one and that is the one that is at Henan.

    Sifus' of those time also carried out the propoganda of Shaolin by claiming to be a disciple there, when they acually were not. Because it was such a legend, they could increase their enrollment and popularize their style. they needed to make a living and didn't care about misconception. Similiar to what many people do today.

    Can anyone relly define what hte Shaolin Kung Fu System is? What most people considers to be Shaoln is the Long Fist System (ChangQuan). Actually there many styles of the Long Fist System, one of these is Jia Men , which is actually from the Chinese Muslims.

    "The key is to begin at the beginning;high level short cuts can only lead to dead end."
    "If You can't be honest nothing can happen."

  11. #26
    iamaloser Guest

    Shaolin Temple

    That's strange. Wasn't there a movie, "Shaolin Temple" filmed at the Shaolin Temple? There have also been numerous documentaries about the martial arts on TLC showing Shaolin monks demonstrating their skills at Shaolin Temple. There is also a real-life and well-documented Shaolin Temple monk that immigrated to the US and is teaching in NY. He and his students demonstrated in that "Blade" movie special a couple of years ago on TV.

  12. #27
    reemul Guest

    tv huh

    You believe everything you see on TV?

  13. #28
    Gargoyle again Guest

    x

    true imaloser,

    but I think you are confusing the physical site of Shaolin with the art of Shaolin kungfu. Just because the physical temple structure survives to this day, doesn't mean that the people that have recently repopulated it are "genuine". Look up some interviews with Jet Li and the filmakers who filmed "Shaolin Temple" in the 80's, when they filmed the temple and surrounding area were uninhabited except for a dozen or so caretakers, and had been uninhabited since the '30's. There was nothing being practiced there, for all intents and purposes the temple was "dead". As for the people that have moved back in during the '80's and 90's, whether or not they preserve the authenticity of their predecessors is up for debate, and will likely never be answered.

    "You should never, never doubt what no one is sure about."
    --Willie Wonka

  14. #29
    KickingMantis Guest

    Exacto Mundo!

    The media via TV,Film,Comics and other fictions has greatly distorted the truth not only behind Shaolin, but in Chinese Kung Fu in general.

    This is why so many people give traditional Chinese Kung Fu a bad rep.

    A lot of what most people think is Chinese Kung Fu isn't. The whole internal and external thing is out of proportion as well, that was started by a Chinese writer long ago, inquiring and writing about Chinese Kung Fu and trying to categorize it.

    All styles of Chinese Kung Fu have elements of hard and soft. Their approach to these elements are somewhat different however. Some begin the student out teaching them the hard elements and later in the advanced level, they are taught the soft, depending on the physical requirements of the style. Others teach their students soft elements from the beginning and then as they advnace the harder ones.

    The misconception of "southern fists and northern legs" is another misconception. All proproganded by media and the kung fu craze.

    For the most part, if things seem to be fascinating and magical, you can bet your dollar that most of the time it isn't.

    "The key is to begin at the beginning;high level short cuts can only lead to dead end."
    "If You can't be honest nothing can happen."

  15. #30
    8stepsifu Guest

    how about wu dong?

    Did you see it in Crouching Tiger? That place is beautifull. I say it kicks shaolin's ass hands down.

    If your not bleeding, your not having enough fun.

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