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Thread: Ma Huang/Ephedra Banned

  1. #1
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    Ma Huang/Ephedra Banned

    Any thoughts?
    Those that are the most sucessful are also the biggest failures. The difference between them and the rest of the failures is they keep getting up over and over again, until they finally succeed.


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  2. #2
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    Not sure why the ban on ma huang. I am unfamiliar with it's properties as a drug.

    But ephedra I understand. It's a relatively short process from ephedra to methamphetamine and frankly if that can be kept off the street then that's a good thing.

    cheers
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  3. #3
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    What are they? I've never heard of either of them.

  4. #4
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    well, both contain the drug ephedrine.

    I believe that they are both used for the most part in weight loss regimens.

    apparently, ma huang got the ban because it contains ephedrine.

    ephedrine is essentially "speed". and is used for a variety of things like bee sting allergy or to raise metabolic rate in dieting programs.

    It's pretty dangerous stuff if it is not used with care. And like I mentioned earlier, it's not a big leap from ephedrine to methamphetamine. meth is a huge problem and has devastating long term effects in users.

    It actually creates little holes throughout the brain tissue. It eats away at the brain until eventual death in heavy users...if the heart attack doesn't kill them first.

    cheers
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  5. #5
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    Ma Huang is Chinese for Ephedra.

    As for the eating holes in the brain, sorry, it does not do that. It's an herb often used in Chinese sports perfromance formulas. It boost adrenilin, and is most known for dialating the blood vessles in the lungs, there by improving breathing capactiy. In high doses though, it becomes a vascular constrictive agent, and causes high blood pressure.

    The problem is in the US, it is used as a weight loss drug. Unfortunetly in order to get that effect you have to basically over dose yourself on a consistant basis. Matters are made worse when mixed with caffine as it is vascoconstrictive, and has an enhancing effect on the herb. The raw herb taken as a tea before you train is very safe, and gives you a nice boost. I have been useing it for years prior to my own practice with no problems so long as I make the tea from the raw dried herb. I had some real scares with the pill forms years ago, and a really nasty one with one of those "Stacks" that mix Ephedra, Guranna (Herbal caffiene) and Willow bark (Aspirine). I got the skakes, and my heart was pounding so hard I though it was going to burst, I felt queasy and was having dizzy and near black out spells for hours. This was with HALF the bottles recomended dosage. If I had taken the whole thng as recomended on the bottle, I'm sure I would have died.

    My studies on the subject lead me to believe that the refined concentraited ephedrine mixed with caffiene is the dangerous mix. Mahuang (Ephedra) as a pure raw dried herb made into a tea is a refreshing, stimulating tonic that is totally safe. I would have liked to see this be a ban of the Ephedra/caffiene/aspirine stack commonly found in fat burners like "Hydroxi Cut" and other such products, and not the actual herb itself.
    Those that are the most sucessful are also the biggest failures. The difference between them and the rest of the failures is they keep getting up over and over again, until they finally succeed.


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  6. #6
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    rd-

    it's the meth that eats holes or rather creates "pitting" in the brain tissue.

    ephedra is a natural product. It is when it is chemically altered into meth where the problem occurs.

    meth is made from ephedra

    cheers
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  7. #7
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    funny little factoid:

    The US military has passed out meth (crank) to soldiers working particularly long shifts/missions. A buddy of mine was in Korea and used it all the time there. Kinda scary...3 days awake and then a week of sleep.

    RD, I'm pretty sure KL is correct in that it is some of the stuff added to ephadrine that kills you in the long run. I'm sure IL has banned it mostly because they are root ingredients in X and X is the 'baddie' of the moment in youth.
    "George never did wake up. And, even all that talking didn't make death any easier...at least not for us. Maybe, in the end, all you can really hope for is that your last thought is a nice one...even if it's just about the taste of a nice cold beer."

    "If you find the right balance between desperation and fear you can make people believe anything"

    "Is enlightenment even possible? Or, did I drive by it like a missed exit?"

    It's simpler than you think.

    I could be completely wrong"

  8. #8
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    yep, "go" pills have been used in the military for a looooooong time.

    I've seen them included with foot soldier kits from WW1.
    But the earlier versions used benzidrene, and I think that even today it is benzidrine that is used while ephedra is used for allergy control, especially with venomous stings such as bees or wasps.

    The pills the soldiers take have clear warnings to not exceed dosage etc etc because when one does overdose on these drugs there is a great chance for auditory and visual hallucienations.

    cheers
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  9. #9
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    i probably shouldn't give details about my buddy but when he came back and told me about it, it was the first time I heard the word 'crank'. It wasn't an 'official' dispersal. Of course, he wasn't where his orders said he was supposed to be anyway...
    "George never did wake up. And, even all that talking didn't make death any easier...at least not for us. Maybe, in the end, all you can really hope for is that your last thought is a nice one...even if it's just about the taste of a nice cold beer."

    "If you find the right balance between desperation and fear you can make people believe anything"

    "Is enlightenment even possible? Or, did I drive by it like a missed exit?"

    It's simpler than you think.

    I could be completely wrong"

  10. #10
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    RD, I'm pretty sure KL is correct in that it is some of the stuff added to ephadrine that kills you in the long run.

    Reply]
    Yes, it's caffine. Caffine and Ephedrine are a deady combination. I think the new law (As I understand it) is misguided. It should ban the mix of the two. I mean ephedrine is the man ingredient in Sudephed (The over the counter decongestant). I have never heard of Sudephed ever harming anyone.

    It's the Caffine because it's greatly enhances the effect of the Ephedrine, but cancelles out the localised vasciodialaton effect in the coranary artieries, and the lungs thus boosting blood pressure off the charts and risking death, especially in the mega doseges found in those products. Also, the ephedrine is refined and concentrated pharmaseutically.

    In the raw herb, there are about a dozen different constituants, ephidrine is only one of many. Even in larger doseges of the raw herb, the amount of actuall ephedrine is not all that significant.

    A 1 to 1 mix of Mahuang and Rhemenia is tonifying to the Kidneys, and I have found it to be effective in helping my Gout problems as well as improving both my training time, and intensity levels. Hard workouts often seems to cause Gout pain, but the above mix with a nice tall glass of Cherry cider prevents that.
    Those that are the most sucessful are also the biggest failures. The difference between them and the rest of the failures is they keep getting up over and over again, until they finally succeed.


    For the Women:

    + = & a

  11. Thumbs up Beware of quackery.

    A drug that has been linked to 17 deaths,thatīs enough for me to ban it.
    Iīd ban about any "herbal","natural" or related drug though,which has not gone trough rigorous testing.
    Be wary of non-regulated ones.
    Various sources recognize this drug as both controversial in terms of supposed effect,but know itīs dangers.


    Information relevant to-.
    http://www.hcrc.org/announce/archive4.html
    http://www.herbalwatch.com/Alerts/herbal_ephedra.html
    http://www.kbmoll.com/invest/iv_meta.htm
    http://www.dietfraud.com/alerts.html

    It is important to realize that folklore wisdom,referring to logical fallacy of "argument to antiquity" does not mean that youīll be out on solid ground using unknown drugs.
    (Yes,not many might have used real medication together with herbal supplements.We realize this interaction may be the cause of fatality/problem,however,this is but another reason to take a serious stand)
    The sunsetīs setting down.Lay me on the forest floor.

    ______________________________
    I do not necessarily stand behind all of the statements I have made in the past, in this forum. Some of the statements may have appeared to support a biased view of reality, and may have been offensive. If you are a moral person and were hurt by comments that I made, you can PM me about it and I will apologize if I find your cause reasonable.
    -FC, summer of 2006-

  12. #12
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    Ma huang Too Bad

    G'Day
    Too bad illionois has followed other states ( Texas, New York, I'm sure there are others) in banning ma huang/ephedra since it can be broken down into ephedrine. ( I sped read through Royal Dragon's openning so I don't know if it's ephedrine or ma huang that is "off the shelves" However, even if it was ephedrine, ma huang would be in danger since it does contain ephedrine.) Crank, meth is made from all sorts of ****- over the counter-cold remedies, for example, which are not being taken off the shelf-and to come down hard on an herb is typical US legal mentality.
    Ma huang is a warming diaphoretic and is the herb of choice to be combined with other herbs to treat cold damage and resolve the muscles. Depending on the formulas and other herbs used it can induce or stop sweating. Ma huang combination and cinnamin combination are the two classic formulas that come to mind.
    The ephedrine that can be extracted from ma huang is only 1 % of the total constituents of the natural product. The plant has other constituents ( 99%) that offset negative side effects.
    To the Chinese, ma huang's main purpose is not as a sports drink, it's to treat colds, cold type asthma.
    Go to www.mercola.com. An interesting article that gives figures to the 250,000 docter induced deaths a year that occur in the US, the nation with the most expensive form of health care in the world, got to research this and that, make money for drug companies, and rank highest in infant mortality among modern industrial nations. See where the babies die see where the ghettos are. This article was printed in JAMA.
    The point is that traditional medicine works within it's capabilities; it's also very inexpensive to administer. And believe me, if there were 250,000 deaths due to acupuncture, herbs, massage, reike, nutritional advice a year, the AMA and MDs would shut traditional medicine down.
    Well got to do my stances, body exercise and jurus.Pilgrim

  13. Thumbs up Amazing world of quackery

    The site you posted seems a little controversial,if not actually harsh bogus.

    I have been reading it a bit,and among some other things it does hint at anti-vaccine propaganda.
    This kind of junk seems to be passed on by quackers (this includes chiropractics etc.)
    Some vaccine related information;
    http://www.ncahf.org/search/webglimp...&query=vaccine

    Site includes a link to a supposed benefits of a bogus therapy (TT)
    http://www.mercola.com/2000/june/17/prayer.htm

    Additionally,there seems to be some pseudoscientifical information on milk (this evil,?unnatural? product.Referring to some milk-derived product here)
    Here; http://www.mercola.com/2000/jul/30/formula_diabetes.htm
    Iīve noticed a surge of milk-hate in controversial&quackery sources,of course unnecessarily strict vegetarians or the misinformed may be led to this belief.
    The site does not seem to offer a decent reference to any particular study.It tries to be scientific,drawing conclusions from a mice related study (however,how good a mice test may ever be,it is still too brave to draw conclusions as history shows)
    It leaves some question on whether it is trying to pass on that milk is dangerous or that a milk related product is (in one case)

    Interesting discussion on milk fraud;
    http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showt...threadid=20056

    Did copy some links from there;
    http://www.acsh.org/press/editorial...milk020100.html
    http://www.acsh.org/publications/reports/milkado.html
    http://www.acsh.org/publications/reports/milk99.html
    http://www.acsh.org/press/releases/milk100699.html

    "Emotional freedom technique-psychological acupressure"
    Pseudoscience guaranteed;
    http://www.mercola.com/forms/eftcourse.htm

    Fear over cell phones,EM-fields...
    http://www.mercola.com/2000/may/14/c...nes_cancer.htm
    Debunking;
    http://jeromekahn123.tripod.com/quackery/id1.html
    http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news03/cell_suit.html
    (Might collect more data later)

    This is not all,but some things that struck me.
    The sunsetīs setting down.Lay me on the forest floor.

    ______________________________
    I do not necessarily stand behind all of the statements I have made in the past, in this forum. Some of the statements may have appeared to support a biased view of reality, and may have been offensive. If you are a moral person and were hurt by comments that I made, you can PM me about it and I will apologize if I find your cause reasonable.
    -FC, summer of 2006-

  14. #14
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    Boston
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    My mom has always been a total health nut, meaning she follows every new trend religiously. Drove me nuts. During college she got me a job at a friend's health food store. The owner gave me a bunch of samples of herbal products to try out so I could recommend them to customers. Biggest one was this diet drug called PowerUP, with ephedra as the main ingredient. "Take as much of this stuff as you want," the guy said, "It's herbal, there's no side effects."

    So I took the full dosage of PowerUP and spent the day feeling awful: hyped-up, out of breath, heart pounding, headache. I threw all the samples out.

    Didn't last long there, anyway. The owner wasn't happy that I refused to tell customers to "take all they want" in terms of dosage. So we parted ways.

    I guess it didn't help that I made a point of wearing T-shirts with logos like "Slimfast" and "Joe Camel" to work, bring DQ for lunch, etc. I just enjoyed watching him twitch.
    There is a great streak of violence in every human being. If it is not channeled and understood, it will break out in war or in madness. ~Sam Peckinpah

  15. #15
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    I haven't read all the links, but I do know Milk causes more mucus production, and lessens breathing efficiency. Many athletes avoid it because of that.
    Those that are the most sucessful are also the biggest failures. The difference between them and the rest of the failures is they keep getting up over and over again, until they finally succeed.


    For the Women:

    + = & a

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