Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 37

Thread: A young Yu Hai performs his mantis form

  1. #16
    Gene

    Clearly if Yu Hai was a an early creator of wushu then it goes that he knew traditional of some kind as the modern wushu didn't exist before it was created. I made no comment on Yu Hai's general achievements.

    What I did say, and do say is that the video performance above is a contemporary dance routine and nothing to do with any kung fu that came before it except to borrow some flavour.

    If Lueb is referring to this when he says it's traditional and I'm not 'educated' then he is sorely mistaken. There is nothing traditional about any modern wushu.

    In fact, we only have to use the work 'traditional' to differentiate because modern wushu - the performance art - is something else.

  2. #17
    Greetings,

    I agree that there is a difference in appearance between what Yu Hai created and traditional Praying Mantis.

    The difference that I see is in the way that he works the "plum flower." He keeps it on a horizontal axis which is a departure from what I am used to seeing in traditional styles. Yet, it is clear he could go vertical at any point.


    mickey

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Western MASS
    Posts
    4,812
    Quote Originally Posted by Redfish View Post
    Gene

    Clearly if Yu Hai was a an early creator of wushu then it goes that he knew traditional of some kind as the modern wushu didn't exist before it was created. I made no comment on Yu Hai's general achievements.

    What I did say, and do say is that the video performance above is a contemporary dance routine and nothing to do with any kung fu that came before it except to borrow some flavour.

    If Lueb is referring to this when he says it's traditional and I'm not 'educated' then he is sorely mistaken. There is nothing traditional about any modern wushu.

    In fact, we only have to use the work 'traditional' to differentiate because modern wushu - the performance art - is something else.
    being nothing traditional about modern wushu? where did it come from? hmm let see, not gymnastics, traditional arts.....

    maybe now currently its all gymnastics (if you saw the last china games you will know what i mean.) but in the 70's, 80's, and even early 90's it still had the martial aspect of it.

    what a lot of "traditional" people dont seem to understand it was put together for competition, not fighting. there still is application in moves.

    are you just one of the traditional guys who is jealous of their skill? i see a lot of modern wushu people train harder then the traditional guys and move better then the traditional guys do.

    yeah the mantis is obviously too fast to be traditional. but it does have its roots. there is application to his moves if you break down speed. there its performed as a dance.

    my sifu performed that form in a traditional mantis ring at the famous baltimore tournament back in the day and slowed it down and showed more power and won a gold medal. also had a famous chinese mantis master or two congratulate him and how good his mantis was. yet its not even his style, its just a "wushu" form with no application and is a dance routine.

    *edit
    man im treading on dangerous ground with this post. i should quit while im ahead.
    Last edited by Shaolinlueb; 12-07-2006 at 12:20 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho Mantis View Post
    Genes too busy rocking the gang and scarfing down bags of cheetos while beating it to nacho ninjettes and laughing at the ridiculous posts on the kfforum. In a horse stance of course.

  4. #19
    Lueb, you are only treading on dangerous ground in that your entire post there was nonsense.

    Where did it come from, what was it's background? ... gymnastics. Modern Wushu was created from the floor/rhythm gymnastics model.

    Why was it created - for competition? It was created by a government bent on remoulding society in it's ideological image. There was no intention to improve or modify 'kung fu' for reasons such as standardisation - only to replace it.

    Traditional should be slow? I've no idea what you're talking about as I have to practice all my forms with as much speed, power and definition as possible.

    Jealous? I do often admire that physical prowess of some modern wushu players, I spent a lot of time here around the ex-Shanghai team captain Alvin Guo Liang. But that's the same admiration I feel looking at an olympic gymnast or an NBA basketball player - appreciating athletecism. The skill of modern wushu players is not applicable to kung fu skills of fighting. As a whole army of MMA guys will repeat in other forums: just repeating punch-movements in a performance does not confer fighting skills.

    If that exact same form was really performed at a 'traditional' comp and was congratulated then the people watching had no idea about Mantis or were just being nice.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Western MASS
    Posts
    4,812
    Quote Originally Posted by Redfish View Post
    Lueb, you are only treading on dangerous ground in that your entire post there was nonsense.

    Where did it come from, what was it's background? ... gymnastics. Modern Wushu was created from the floor/rhythm gymnastics model.

    Why was it created - for competition? It was created by a government bent on remoulding society in it's ideological image. There was no intention to improve or modify 'kung fu' for reasons such as standardisation - only to replace it.

    Traditional should be slow? I've no idea what you're talking about as I have to practice all my forms with as much speed, power and definition as possible.

    Jealous? I do often admire that physical prowess of some modern wushu players, I spent a lot of time here around the ex-Shanghai team captain Alvin Guo Liang. But that's the same admiration I feel looking at an olympic gymnast or an NBA basketball player - appreciating athletecism. The skill of modern wushu players is not applicable to kung fu skills of fighting. As a whole army of MMA guys will repeat in other forums: just repeating punch-movements in a performance does not confer fighting skills.

    If that exact same form was really performed at a 'traditional' comp and was congratulated then the people watching had no idea about Mantis or were just being nice.

    nonsense, no.

    traditional shoul;d be slow? no, that mantis was way fast, i have never seen traditional that fast.

    made for competition?

    am i gonna leave this alone now? yes

    later
    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho Mantis View Post
    Genes too busy rocking the gang and scarfing down bags of cheetos while beating it to nacho ninjettes and laughing at the ridiculous posts on the kfforum. In a horse stance of course.

  6. #21
    Shaolinliueb,

    What kind of mantis do you study?

    Ciao,
    BBK

  7. #22
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    776
    Awesome form I believe Yu Hui is a 7* mantis master. I've got the magazine with the article on how he created the form, etc. but haven't read it yet. Skimmed it a bit though... saw he's a Christian Might not have anything to do with his martial arts, but I found it surprising

    Is that video really Yu Hui? It doesn't really look like him to me...

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    South Texas
    Posts
    128

    awesome article

    Gene,
    Awesome article! Yu Hai rocks! Do you know who he trained Chen Tai ji with?

    israel

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    1,671
    That's Yu Hai, he's just a lot younger than we're all used to seeing him. Like in Shaolin Temple.

    Yu Shan, that's who Tu learned the set from.

    That Monkey Stick is from the same tape, I have a copy of it, I think it was from 1974. Don't know that I care much for it though. First time I saw Ding Wei perform it at Splendid China I was impressed but after seeing it quite a few times I see it's more Monkey than fighting.

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Western MASS
    Posts
    4,812
    Quote Originally Posted by bungbukuen View Post
    Shaolinliueb,

    What kind of mantis do you study?

    Ciao,
    BBK
    honestly? im not gonna make up any lies, i dont study mantis. only time i saw a lot of mantis perform was at this years taiji legacy.

    my teacher did wah lum for a bit but doesnt teach it at all. and the only mantis i know that we do regularly is that form slowed down to a traditional pace, i hope you dont flame me now for saying traditional is slow. its not, its jsut not as fgast as the master in the movie. concentrating more on power and clear moves. if i could get the video of my sifu doing it up on youtube i would put it up.
    Last edited by Shaolinlueb; 12-09-2006 at 11:59 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho Mantis View Post
    Genes too busy rocking the gang and scarfing down bags of cheetos while beating it to nacho ninjettes and laughing at the ridiculous posts on the kfforum. In a horse stance of course.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Western MASS
    Posts
    4,812
    Quote Originally Posted by Yao Sing View Post
    That's Yu Hai, he's just a lot younger than we're all used to seeing him. Like in Shaolin Temple.

    Yu Shan, that's who Tu learned the set from.

    That Monkey Stick is from the same tape, I have a copy of it, I think it was from 1974. Don't know that I care much for it though. First time I saw Ding Wei perform it at Splendid China I was impressed but after seeing it quite a few times I see it's more Monkey than fighting.

    it is. master hu, now pushing 50 is still performing that form with flipping and everything. he said he'll be able to flip but not walk lol. he immitates the monkey well still.

    the wushu monkey i admit doesnt have a lot of fighting in it at all. its more performance looking like the monkey. i still like it
    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho Mantis View Post
    Genes too busy rocking the gang and scarfing down bags of cheetos while beating it to nacho ninjettes and laughing at the ridiculous posts on the kfforum. In a horse stance of course.

  12. #27
    I should be honest with you too Shaolinliueb. It was pretty obvious from your posts that you didnt have a clue about traditional mantis. Do you train any traditional Eagle Claw or is that also modern?

    BBK

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Western MASS
    Posts
    4,812
    Quote Originally Posted by bungbukuen View Post
    I should be honest with you too Shaolinliueb. It was pretty obvious from your posts that you didnt have a clue about traditional mantis. Do you train any traditional Eagle Claw or is that also modern?

    BBK
    all traditional eagle claw. i know the modern wushu form, i dont like it very much.

    heck i may not have a clue about traditional mantis, but i know my kung fu brothers have beaten out a lot of traditional mantis guys with that form in mantis divisions back in the baltimore tourney days.
    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho Mantis View Post
    Genes too busy rocking the gang and scarfing down bags of cheetos while beating it to nacho ninjettes and laughing at the ridiculous posts on the kfforum. In a horse stance of course.

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Nashville USA
    Posts
    1,697
    Not to nitpick, if you say this form beat out all the traditional Mantis competitors in the tournament, then I question the judging in that ring. Flash should not beat out a technically sound and powerful traditional form. I am revealing personal feelings here, but I cannot stand it when you get these flashy wushu looking forms played in the Mantis Division. In my opinion they need to be in the wushu division and stay out of the traditional area.
    I am still a student practicing - Wang Jie Long

    "Don`t Taze Me Bro"

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    1,671
    Yu Shan brings up a point that's something of a pet peeve of my own. The state of competitions today is the result (I prefer the word "fault") of the judges.

    As long as they give high scores for non-martial related "flash" all the competitors are going to juice up their forms with gymnastics and other crap to win.

    Essentially the judges are saying "this is good Kung Fu" and in reality it isn't (unless you adhere strictly to the definition of the word although the popular usage relates to fighting skill).

    I'm sure a lot of peeps here judge, or have in the past. What are your thoughts? Are we going to reward GymKata and lose the essence of the Martial Arts?
    When seconds count the cops are only minutes away!

    Quote Originally Posted by wenshu View Post
    Sorry, sometimes I forget you guys have that special secret internal sauce where people throw themselves and you don't have to do anything except collect tuition.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •