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Thread: Shi Decheng

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeneChing View Post
    组图:前少林武僧访美教学
    It's in Chinese. Some nice photos.
    Scott Jeffrey oversees Jade Forest Kung Fu & Tai Chi in Rockland, MA

    Tim Hartmann oversees Wu Dao Kung Fu and Tai Chi in Cambridge, MA
    Just noticed the article calls him 前武僧 (former wuseng), but these schools are still promoting him as "Shaolin Monk Shi Decheng".

    Are his students not aware that he is not a monk, or was just wuseng before? Why doesn't he do like Zhang Lipeng and use his given name Chen Qingzhen?

  2. #62
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    He does go by Chen Qingzhen quite often

    However, he's more famous internationally as Shi Decheng. I'd venture to say that many of his foreign students don't even know his birth name. Former Shaolin monk is a bit of a mouthful, so I seldom see that used. The Shaolin name game is quite a shuffle - I engaged that in my cover story for the 2011 Shaolin Special with Decheng's comrade Xingyu - see The Movie Monk.
    Gene Ching
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  3. #63
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    Shaolin Master is only one syllable more.

    Yeah, I remember wondering if it was a Yongxin move to have Xingyu renamed as yet another "Yan" in order to work on the movie under the monastery's support. It's kind of disgusting how many yans there are now because of "rediscipleshipment" to grow Yongxin's product and undoubtedly continue his empire for generations to come. But this has all been discussed before and is off topic here.

    I was just wondering if people, and kind of surprised if especially his students, still think Shi Decheng is or was a monk.

  4. #64
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    There is definitely a move towards Yans

    I think anyone who bears a Su, De, Xing or Yong name, should bear it proudly, although I completely understand about Xingyu's name change. I do address this topic in our current cover story, Escaping Buddha's Grasp (Sep Oct 2011). The subject is Shi Yongyao.

    As for the 'real' monk issue, you know how complicated it is, LFJ. Shaolin Master is slowly emerging as the new term under the Abbot, but change is slow and that's not quite distinct enough. My first sifu, Wing Lam, is a Shaolin master, but he never trained at Shaolin. Ex-monk or Former Shaolin Monk gives the wrong connotation. Wuseng is the most accurate, but far too much Chinese.
    Gene Ching
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeneChing View Post
    I think anyone who bears a Su, De, Xing or Yong name, should bear it proudly,
    Yes, there is even a new Yan guy, disciple of Yongxin, in my city who you actually covered in the FOB Monks thread as a Xing. He teaches under a made-up Xing name and false lineage. If only Yongxin knew...

  6. #66
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    That's odd

    Now why would anyone do that? Can we take this up on the FOB monks thread?
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  7. #67
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    I'm not quite sure why. Perhaps because the master he claims is more well-respected overseas. But I don't know if it were to get back to Yongxin if it would draw negative repercussions toward the master, even though he has nothing to do with it.

    Since it is off topic here, you're welcome to merge it.

  8. #68
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    Eh, no worries about the merge - it doesn't separate neatly

    I recently had a conversation with a Xing who has returned to visit Shaolin, but won't go for an audience with the Abbot because he knows the Abbot will request him to re-disciple as a Yan. That Xing had too much respect for his De master to do that. When Yongxin first became abbot, a lot of Yans pulled me aside to tell me that Decheng was a fake monk and I should re-disciple. But I was at Shaolin before Yongxin became abbot, and remember how hard the Su, De and Xing generation worked to defend and preserve the legacy. I know how hard it was for Decheng and his kung fu brothers in the early years. Some of that I've discussed in my book. While they might not be as pious as some of the current Yan generation, they put out so much more in the late 80s because Shaolin wasn't as well established. That generation of monks was seriously hardcore. I took my disciple vows under Decheng at the peak of that period. I will still honor them, regardless of his return to civilian life. His understanding of Chan is still quite profound.
    Gene Ching
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  9. #69
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    Right on. I think it's so silly about being asked to re-disciple. It's kind of disrespectful to the previous master, and what's the big deal anyway?

    The deal with the Xing guy here is that when I heard he came to town I made contact to greet him, and since he was a Xing and not Yan I was interested in who his master was. As it turned out he said we have the same De master. But it was odd he said he was from the Wushuguan as a child in the mid-late 90's as a student of Xingxi. I also found it odd because this De master wasn't teaching there.

    Since he was opening a school in my same city I contacted my master to ask about him. I sent him pictures and the guy's birthname (because he often uses that to be safe I guess) and Dharma name. Master said he has so many secular disciples it's hard to tell. He didn't recognize him, but told me to ask for his refuge certificate to know for sure.

    Then I found on their facebook page for the school, which I assume is managed by the guy who brought him here who speaks English and no Chinese, was an uploaded photo of his refuge certificate to show authentication from Shaolin. Of course it's in Chinese so not everyone can read it, and I guess the Xing guy didn't know about it being uploaded, because it had clearly written his Dharma name as a Yan and his refuge master as Yongxin.

    So I didn't even have to ask to see it. The thing is he looked me in the eye when we met and said proudly that we are brothers because we share the same master!

    I've told this to my master, but he said we'll talk more about it later. I'll be back in Shaolin in less than two weeks now.

  10. #70
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    Shi Decheng seminars in Massachusetts

    Shi Decheng will be hosted again by Sifu Scott Jeffrey at Jade Forest Kung Fu, 73 Reservoir Park Dr., Rockland, Massachusetts - For more information 781-871-9062 • sifu@jadeforestrockland.com. Here is the schedule from his flyer:

    Monday, September 26
    Chen Tai Chi
    6:30 – 9:00 pm • Price: $85

    Tuesday, September 27
    Shaolin Chin Na
    6:30 – 9:00 pm • Price: $85

    Saturday, October 1
    Jie Ben Gong - Part 1
    9:30 am – 12 pm
    Two day seminar learning Shaolin 18 basic skills
    Price: $150 (for both days)
    50% off of Jie Ben Gong if you sign-up for another
    weekend seminar.

    Shaolin Straight
    Sword - Part 3
    2 – 5 pm
    This seminar is only open to students who have
    taken parts 1 & 2.
    Price: $130

    Sunday, October 2
    Jie Ben Gong - Part 2
    9:30 am – 12 pm
    Second part of two day seminar learning
    Shaolin 18 basic skills
    Traditional Xiao
    Hong Chuan - Part 2
    2 – 5 pm
    This seminar is only open to students who took the simplified
    version in September 2009. Students are strongly
    encouraged to participate in Jei Ben Gong - Part 2, as it
    will enhance their understanding of the afternoon training.
    Price: $130

    Monday, October 3
    Shaolin Qi Gong
    6:30 – 9:00 pm
    Yi Jing Jin has been used for centuries as a traditional
    way to build strength in all the bodies connective tissues.
    Price: $85

    Tuesday, October 4
    Explosive Power
    6:30 – 9:00 pm
    To properly nurture and demonstrate your Kung Fu skills,
    you must find your root, your center, and channel power
    to send it in the intended direction. This workshop will
    plant the seed for the cultivation of power in your body
    and in your practice.
    Price: $85
    Gene Ching
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  11. #71
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    Just talked to Decheng

    He's eager to come to KFTC20.

    Thanks to Scott Jeffrey for hosting him.
    Gene Ching
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  12. #72

    Shaolin Forms by Shi De Cheng

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uIN9...eature=related

    It is from a DVD, where he demonstrates a lot of Jiben Gong and also some applications. You see Da Hong Quan, Lian Huan Quan, Tong Bi Quan and Yi Ying Jing.
    And later own even some stick work but from that I have only seen the preview till now.


    Kind regards,
    Cyrill

  13. #73
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    I have the video. It is French made. It also shows several animal styles and weapon demonstrations. Each performance is from the odd side view, but he's good and powerful nonetheless.

    But I heard he changed the way he does the sets, to conform to Shi Yongxin's push for standardization in Shaolin. I'm not too cool with that idea, as a lot of valuable material would be lost if everyone did that. Fortunately, not all the traditionally learned masters are going along with it either.

    Since Shi Decheng has been out of Shaolin for some time now, I wonder why he would want to do that anyway.
    Last edited by LFJ; 01-12-2012 at 01:50 PM.

  14. #74
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    Where did you hear that, LFJ?

    My last three instructors were all from Shi Yongxin's inner circle of monks: Yan Fei (formerly Shi Yanfei), Shi Yantuo and Shi Yanchen. Each of them had their own unique versions of the forms. While the Abbot has endorsed particular versions in videos and books, I'm not finding that this is enforced by any means. In fact, I'm not sure that all of the videos and books even match. The abbot has allowed the compulsories too, but I don't see that many monks doing it. Those still seem more of a Dengfeng thing. That being said, I'm not sure that the Abbot is all that into standardization, but you know, I'm putting together some interview questions for him right now, and I'll ask about this.

    Shi Decheng has been in two European video series to my knowledge. The first was a 3-part series by Fechter Verlag, Wien, the Austrian company that produced the International 1500th anniversary tour which started in 1995, along with several other tours. That one is in English and was done in 1998. The second one was a 2-part series by Kung Fu Developpement, a French series by Mathieu Vilcot, done in 2000. I think that excerpt above is from the former.
    Gene Ching
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  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeneChing View Post
    Shi Decheng has been in two European video series to my knowledge. The first was a 3-part series by Fechter Verlag, Wien, the Austrian company that produced the International 1500th anniversary tour which started in 1995, along with several other tours. That one is in English and was done in 1998. The second one was a 2-part series by Kung Fu Developpement, a French series by Mathieu Vilcot, done in 2000. I think that excerpt above is from the former.
    That's probably the one I have on VHS, would be nice to have it converted to DVD or digital just to have the data and keep the vids as collector's item.

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