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Thread: insanity from qigong

  1. #16
    Qigong insanity So that's what happened to Bawang in 2007. I always knew there was a story behind the man.

  2. #17
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    Opening The Energy Gates of your Body...

    If I'm not mistaken Bruce Kumar Frantzis has a chapter on this in his book "Opening The Energy Gates of Your Body". Well actually, on qigong gone wrong in general.

    Yeah, here it is on p.157: "Hung I Hsiang's brother was a practitioner of White Crane Chi Gung. A common technique of Shaolin Chi Gung methods such as White Crane is to force, or "pack", energy into the body, much like forcing clothes into a suitcase. This involves forceful breathing, body contractions, and a sense of physical and energetic strength. By overdoing it, hung I Hsiang's brother actually caused one of his lungs to hemorrhage, and died....(p.158) In many Chi Gung systems, especially Shaolin-style and animal styles (White Crane, for example) there is a technique that deliberately tries to vibrate chi in the body. The breath oscillates rapidly and chi is vibrated inside bones, tissues, brain and so forth...My medical Chi Gung teacher in Beijing informed me that these types of vibbrattory practices historically had a high casualty rate. She had worked with cancer patients who had brought their symptoms under control with Chi Gung and then begun vibbrattory practices, which brought their cancer out of remission, and they returned to the hospital to die. The strong sense of power makes these practices addictive, and like crack, when the crash comes, it is too late....When I was 21 I was taught a "secret" technique. I was told it was the Chi Gung that was the power behind Tai Chi. I practiced this technique diligently, two hours a day, until I was able to break bones with one slap simply by vibrating my energy. At the same time, I noticed an incredibly seductive feeling of energy in my head, and I began to realize that I was becoming psychotic. The stronger this chi got, the stranger my mind became, and the hotter my body felt...In a particularly raucous martial art incident in Japan, I found I was breaking bones left and right, and was almost unable to stop myself. At this point, I realized this practice was making me crazy, removing compassion from my makeup, and I stopped. When I later returned to Taiwan a few years later, I found I had been practicing the Tsung He form of Fukien White Crane, and that some of the practitioners of this art were either subtly or obviously psychotic. Many of the most humble-seeming masters of this Chi Gung were actually the most dangerous. Power replaced compassion, and while they might use their power for healing, it would be of little concern to them if they accidentally caused damage instead.
    Last edited by Faruq; 12-24-2012 at 05:08 PM.
    I was on the metro earlier, deep in meditation, when a ruffian came over and started causing trouble. He started pushing me with his bag, steadily increasing the force until it became very annoying. When I turned to him, before I could ask him to stop, he immediately started hurling abuse like a scoundrel. I performed a basic chin na - carotid artery strike combination and sent him to sleep. The rest of my journey was very peaceful, and passersby hailed me as a hero - Warrior Man

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    Does anyone know why doing qigong too much or wrong can cause injury or insanity? does anyone ever had any bad side effects from qigong? i never knew the exact reason for this, and it seems this can happen to anyone.
    When your body start to vibrate and you can't control yourself, it's very dangerous. Some masters said the evil is attached on your body. Gigong is a door to open to the unknown world, it can be dangerous.
    http://johnswang.com

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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    When your body start to vibrate and you can't control yourself, it's very dangerous. Some masters said the evil is attached on your body. Gigong is a door to open to the unknown world, it can be dangerous.
    Yeah, I've seen that on the net too:

    "Risk of Qigong 走火入魔

    by: Joe Hing Kwok Chu

    What is the risk of doing qigong?

    Institutions that teach qigong have been sued by people who are taking qigong (chi kung, chi gong) lessons from them, alleging that the training had caused everything from emotional damage to psychotic breakdowns to suicide.

    About 20 years ago, there was an institution and its instructors that taught qigong were sued by more than 470 people who claimed they had suffered physical and emotional damages, according to a San Francisco newspaper, San Francisco Examiner.

    Can qigong caused that? Actually qigong can cause serious damages from incorrect application by the instructions or by learning the types of qigong that do not match the body, especially learning the self made kind of qigong which has not been proven over time.

    The sickness resulted from doing qigong incorrectly or from receiving incorrect instruction is called "zou huo ru mo" ( 走火入魔 ). The problem can be physiological or psychological or both. The term "zou huo ru mo" literally means the body is catching fire and entered by demons. Today the term "pian cha" 徧差 meaning "deviation" is preferred by many practitioners.

    The problems can show up like mania, psychotic, hallucination, depressed and suicidal, nervous breakdowns, sudden surge of of heart rates, chronic pain, and split personalities.

    This problem also can happen from incorrect training in certain types of yoga (resulted in kundalini syndrome), certain religious types of meditation and incorrect hypnosis.

    There is a secret branch of qigong specially designed to deal with the problem of Zou Huo Ru Mo.

    The author, over 40 years period has helped solved many cases of deviations (zuo huo ru mo) that were referred to him."

    http://alternativehealing.org/risks_of_qigong.htm
    I was on the metro earlier, deep in meditation, when a ruffian came over and started causing trouble. He started pushing me with his bag, steadily increasing the force until it became very annoying. When I turned to him, before I could ask him to stop, he immediately started hurling abuse like a scoundrel. I performed a basic chin na - carotid artery strike combination and sent him to sleep. The rest of my journey was very peaceful, and passersby hailed me as a hero - Warrior Man

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Faruq View Post


    I practiced this technique diligently, two hours a day, until I was able to break bones with one slap simply by vibrating my energy. At the same time, I noticed an incredibly seductive feeling of energy in my head, and I began to realize that I was becoming psychotic. The stronger this chi got, the stranger my mind became, and the hotter my body felt...In a particularly raucous martial art incident in Japan, I found I was breaking bones left and right, and was almost unable to stop myself. At this point, I realized this practice was making me crazy, removing compassion from my makeup,

    [/B]
    You don't know the power of the dark side...

  6. #21
    Keep the center at the center, it is like a nuclear reactor, move it up to the head and it could cause problems, keep it away from the brain, and you should be fine.

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Faruq View Post
    If I'm not mistaken Bruce Kumar Frantzis has a chapter on this in his book "Opening The Energy Gates of Your Body". Well actually, on qigong gone wrong in general.
    that guy is wrong, thats not qigong psychosis, i think hes just a huge poosy, and not used to seeing chinese people being strong and aggresive.

    i bet he thinks bodybuilders and powerlifters are "psychotic" too.
    Last edited by bawang; 12-25-2012 at 10:29 AM.

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  8. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    When your body start to vibrate and you can't control yourself, it's very dangerous. Some masters said the evil is attached on your body. Gigong is a door to open to the unknown world, it can be dangerous.
    no it's not; it's just ideaomotor activity associated with autonomic activity that occurs when you move from a state of heightened / chronic sympathetic state into a more relatively parasympathetic one - all that excess autonomic tone has to go somewhere, it's like shaking off a bad case of the fleas;

    people who receive certain types of bodywork experience the same sort of thing - some call it unwinding, others somato-emotional release; it's the same thing - when u have stuff pent up inside for a long time, when it leaves, it shakes your hand goodbye...

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawang View Post
    that guy is wrong, thats not qigong psychosis, i think hes just a huge poosy, and not used to seeing chinese people being strong and aggresive.

    i bet he thinks bodybuilders and powerlifters are "psychotic" too.
    Thank you Bawang Shi Gung for interpreting the passage for me. I must admit that I've always misinterpreted it. Thank you!
    I was on the metro earlier, deep in meditation, when a ruffian came over and started causing trouble. He started pushing me with his bag, steadily increasing the force until it became very annoying. When I turned to him, before I could ask him to stop, he immediately started hurling abuse like a scoundrel. I performed a basic chin na - carotid artery strike combination and sent him to sleep. The rest of my journey was very peaceful, and passersby hailed me as a hero - Warrior Man

  10. #25
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    I don't have any experience with "qigong insanity" directly, though I would say that there is a significant percentage of "new age" types that are attracted to qigong that seem to come already bundled with lots of personal issues. This applies to both Chinese and Western students.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by pazman View Post
    already bundled with lots of personal issues...
    Only those who

    - doesn't have "inner peace" will search for "inner peace".
    - doesn't have personal principle will need religion.
    - can't help himself will ask help from God.

    When you sleep in your coffin, you'll have all the time in the world to meditate. When you are still alive, you should enjoy your life by running, walking, jumping, flip in the air, sparring, wrestling, ...
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 12-25-2012 at 12:36 PM.
    http://johnswang.com

    More opinion -> more argument
    Less opinion -> less argument
    No opinion -> no argument

  12. #27
    There is a general misunderstanding about meditation.

    All it is, is a method of training, or exercising the mind. That is, using it in unfamiliar ways. There is nothing inherently special about it. Learning to use your mind more efficiently is just as valuable as learning to use your body more efficiently.

    People go crazy because they are crazy to begin with.

  13. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R. Brown View Post
    There is a general misunderstanding about meditation.

    All it is, is a method of training, or exercising the mind. That is, using it in unfamiliar ways. There is nothing inherently special about it. Learning to use your mind more efficiently is just as valuable as learning to use your body more efficiently.

    People go crazy because they are crazy to begin with.
    I believe some people "go crazy" from meditation because they simply don't follow the instructions. They start to feel or experience something, get excited about it, and start trying to recreate it or strengthen it. At the same time they build up delusory ideation around the experience.

    Most important things in meditation training: lengthen attention span, reduce the yappy ego, reduce attachment.

    Least important things: experiencing energy flows, sensations of being charged with power, all that.

  14. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by rett View Post
    I believe some people "go crazy" from meditation because they simply don't follow the instructions. They start to feel or experience something, get excited about it, and start trying to recreate it or strengthen it. At the same time they build up delusory ideation around the experience.

    Most important things in meditation training: lengthen attention span, reduce the yappy ego, reduce attachment.

    Least important things: experiencing energy flows, sensations of being charged with power, all that.
    I agree.

    Less fantasy, more reality.

    If you believe whatever you are experiencing is magical or special in anyway you are starting out in a state of non-reality, so it's no wonder some people go off the deep end.

  15. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by pazman View Post
    I don't have any experience with "qigong insanity" directly, though I would say that there is a significant percentage of "new age" types that are attracted to qigong that seem to come already bundled with lots of personal issues. This applies to both Chinese and Western students.
    absolutely - many in the "alternative" or "new age" sphere are contrarian or fringe types to begin with, the other big group are people who have lived norma lives but have been "let down", "burned out" etc by that path and want to reinvent themselves; in general, they all go for the "bells and whistles' aspect; I would note that I include myself in this, as I was a "seeker" for many years looking for extraordinary experiences; indeed, I had a few; but, for whatever reason, that never seemed quite right either...I'd like to think that I came away from all that and now have an understanding about life as such - probably reading Krishnamurti was one very helpful stepping stone on that path; dealing with other people of like-minded disposition seems to have been of help as well;

    what it boils down to, is that people want an audience; some just want a bigger one than others; of course, nothing wrong with having an audience, but some people are attached to it (as are the audience members attached to being the audience); I suppose that the trick is doing your thing without regard for the audience, if it comes, that's fine (I think Krishnamurti was like that); but many (most?) so-called "spiritual" teachers I find need the audience with a vengeance...

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R. Brown View Post
    There is a general misunderstanding about meditation.

    All it is, is a method of training, or exercising the mind. That is, using it in unfamiliar ways. There is nothing inherently special about it. Learning to use your mind more efficiently is just as valuable as learning to use your body more efficiently.

    People go crazy because they are crazy to begin with.
    yup; and when you couple the sort of autonomic nervous system experiences that go along with meditation and the like, you have people thinking that they have tapped into something magical, extraordinary, something "other"; they swear up and down that this experience validates their metaphysics; what's worse, is people who claim that their experiences are unique, based, for example, on cultural conditionality - so the qigong dilettantes claim that a given set of experiences is possible ONLY via qigong practice; of curse, if they conceded that in fact it wasn't than not only are they no longer special, they might have to concede that all the complex machinations that they go through, all their rules, caveats, warnings, etc. are not even necessary

    Quote Originally Posted by rett View Post
    I believe some people "go crazy" from meditation because they simply don't follow the instructions. They start to feel or experience something, get excited about it, and start trying to recreate it or strengthen it. At the same time they build up delusory ideation around the experience.

    Most important things in meditation training: lengthen attention span, reduce the yappy ego, reduce attachment.

    Least important things: experiencing energy flows, sensations of being charged with power, all that.
    yes; again, this is all "normal" autonomic activity - although it may not be that common! And because this is the case, people think it comes from "outside" or whatever;

    and while the borderline personality types may be more susceptible to strange ideas than others there is a not insignificant number of "normals" who get caught up in the hype as well;

    the funny thing, when you try to explain it using contemporary anatomical / physiological etc. concepts, you get reviled as closed minded, and reminded that "science" can't possibly begin to encompass the vast wholeness of whatever soup du jour they are potating; (of course, as soon as some "scientist" somewhere comes up w a study supporting their belief system, they runn around waving it in the air as proof of how what they do is real, lol...)


    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R. Brown View Post
    I agree.

    Less fantasy, more reality.

    If you believe whatever you are experiencing is magical or special in anyway you are starting out in a state of non-reality, so it's no wonder some people go off the deep end.
    Scott, I think that you are very magical and special...does that mean I'm off the deep end?!

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