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Thread: OT: Nanking the film

  1. #1

    OT: Nanking the film


  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPJ View Post
    i read the book on this ten years ago...tragic

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    the whole period, for the entire world was tragic. In fact, the ripple effect of all of it is still felt today. Obviously.

    I wonder if this film will help to heal wounds or open old ones.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    open old ones.
    Obviously.

    The Chinese Government still use it regularly to renew anti-Japanese and generally nationalistic fervour.

    The Japanese Government and right wing still use it as anti-Chinese jingoistic denial.

    I guess some of the Chinese people still (rightly) want more redress (they don't know or care about the extensive reparations already paid to their government by the Japanese government).

    I guess some Chinese would rather let it lie.

    Most Japanese I've spoken to about it are appalled to the point that they can't speak about it.

    Some just don't believe it, whether through reasoning or horror.

    This movie can only cause more problems... which of course doesn't mean it shouldn't have been made.

    Even knowing that none of my wife's family were in the Imperial Army will not make this movie much easier for me to watch.
    its safe to say that I train some martial arts. Im not that good really, but most people really suck, so I feel ok about that - Sunfist

    Sometime blog on training esp in Japan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Punch View Post
    Obviously.

    The Chinese Government still use it regularly to renew anti-Japanese and generally nationalistic fervour.

    The Japanese Government and right wing still use it as anti-Chinese jingoistic denial.

    I guess some of the Chinese people still (rightly) want more redress (they don't know or care about the extensive reparations already paid to their government by the Japanese government).

    I guess some Chinese would rather let it lie.

    Most Japanese I've spoken to about it are appalled to the point that they can't speak about it.

    Some just don't believe it, whether through reasoning or horror.

    This movie can only cause more problems... which of course doesn't mean it shouldn't have been made.

    Even knowing that none of my wife's family were in the Imperial Army will not make this movie much easier for me to watch.
    i think the only positive humanity can find out of this story is that you need to be your own spirit, patriotism can be an unneccasry sp? evil that leads to no good...you human first not your flag or your religious gang...

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    Japan's Unit 731 made the Nazi party look tame. Japan has some horrible history behind its culture.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cvcs5rA95FU

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Jack II View Post
    Japan's Unit 731 made the Nazi party look tame. Japan has some horrible history behind its culture.
    They were bad. A German Nazi in Nanking, John Rabe, was so appalled at the atrocities that he set up a safety zone in Nanking (The International Committee for Nanking Safety Zone).

    When a Nazi is disgusted by your behavior that says alot.

    Not to go off topic, but this one big reason I'll never apologize for my country dropping the A-boms on Japan.
    When given the choice between big business and big government, choose big business. Big business never threw millions of people into gas chambers, but big government did.

    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men" -Samuel Adams

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    The Germans also did medical experiments on prisoners. However throughout the war Hitler himself ordered that the Germans never use chemical weapons in combat. This was due to his being gassed in WW1. He knew the Allies would retaliate with gas attacks and the thought of German soldiers being gassed actually disgusted him.

    The Germans also never attempted to develop or use biological weapons, unlike the Japanese.
    When given the choice between big business and big government, choose big business. Big business never threw millions of people into gas chambers, but big government did.

    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men" -Samuel Adams

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1bad65 View Post
    Not to go off topic, but this one big reason I'll never apologize for my country dropping the A-boms on Japan.
    I don't think it is necessarily off topic - we're talking about strong emotions and human reaction, but you see mate, we can't even have a conversation about this because you already decided I'm a Japanophile (whatever you define that as - ostensibly a racist term itself)...

    BTW, great point Diego, but unfortunately I'm not sure modern Japanese people would give themselves a chance to assess things in that way. Dunno, some would.
    its safe to say that I train some martial arts. Im not that good really, but most people really suck, so I feel ok about that - Sunfist

    Sometime blog on training esp in Japan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Jack II View Post
    Japan's Unit 731 made the Nazi party look tame. Japan has some horrible history behind its culture.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cvcs5rA95FU
    Thanks for the link BJ, I'd love to put that on the five huge TV screens in Shibuya.

    Mind you, while I was at it, I'd love for my government to apologise to the estimated 30 million we starved in India, the 300 000 we massacred in Kenya in the Mao Mao uprising, etc etc... I don't think that excuses the Japanese, nor is it equivalent in atrocity (no mass rape, no experiments etc), but it still ain't so great.
    Last edited by Mr Punch; 01-11-2008 at 08:29 PM.
    its safe to say that I train some martial arts. Im not that good really, but most people really suck, so I feel ok about that - Sunfist

    Sometime blog on training esp in Japan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Punch View Post
    ...we can't even have a conversation about this because you already decided I'm a Japanophile (whatever you define that as - ostensibly a racist term itself)...
    And where did I say that?
    When given the choice between big business and big government, choose big business. Big business never threw millions of people into gas chambers, but big government did.

    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men" -Samuel Adams

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    The Harry Truman/reasons for the A-bomb thread.

    You saw the name Harry Truman and went off in a frothing rage over what you decided I was saying instead of reading it and bothering to pause to understand it for a second, when I wasn't actually a million miles away from your position. I bet you didn't actually Google what I thought you might be interested in Googling either did you? The bit about Truman and his decisions for the bombings: you assumed that I was talking about hindsight, for some reason not thinking for a moment that he'd considered the decision very very carefully for some time before the attack...!

    Anyway, it makes interesting reading (the main site you'd come up with if you were to Google what I suggested): it would help you to put your argument in perspective without having to change your opinion. Assuming you don't start frothing again...!

    It's understandable, mind. I froth every time I look at anything about Nanking. And I froth every time I have to deal with some dumb **** in the school I work in where of course any discussion of their history books is not done. The worst thing isn't the out-and-out racists but the complete lack of any sense of a place in the world even among knowledgeable, intelligent, nice people: naivety is still unbelievably rife.

    They really really don't know. And it's not getting any better.

    Of course I don't blame the people any more than I blame my forefathers for the atrocities of the British Empire... I know they weren't personally involved. But I do blame them for their lack of interest. If I point out our policy of starving approx 30 million Indians in the famine of 1876 in response to anybody's tripe about the Empire essentially being a force for good, I expect some reasoned discussion and some thought: if I point out anything about Nanking over here to the vast majority of the people - that's it, I'm a ****ing pariah.

    Anyway, I'm in danger of rambling.
    its safe to say that I train some martial arts. Im not that good really, but most people really suck, so I feel ok about that - Sunfist

    Sometime blog on training esp in Japan

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    It's not a racist term.
    When given the choice between big business and big government, choose big business. Big business never threw millions of people into gas chambers, but big government did.

    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men" -Samuel Adams

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    I don't know if Japanese people in Japan are so much in denial about it, but rather keep in mind, for a long time the massacre in Nanking was not taught in Japanese history books, from what I have heard.

    Japan has some horrible history in its past, but every culture has examples of a horrible past. People like to make convenient comparisons, and it seems to be human nature to omit or try to lessen the horrific acts of their own ancestors. We can say the Japanese made the Nazis look tame; I doubt anyone would say that if they were one of the Jews in the Nazi camps themselves. Horrific acts of torture and murder are a part of America's past. One example: the whites who killed native Americans, killed native women and cut off their breasts to make pouches. Anyone can say this doesn't compare to the Japanese, but torture, murder, degredation and human monsters know NO national or racial bounds. If you were one of those women, or that were your mother/wife/daughter/sister, how would you have felt about it?

    As an American of Japanese descent (3rd generation, grandfather arrived Stateside in 1890s) I have been blamed for Pearl Harbor ad nauseum. There are still a lot of people today who blame all persons who are Japanese for the war, even if they were not born then, or not even born in Japan! I will NOT excuse what the Japanese *Imperial Army* did during the rape of Nanking and the war!! But to blame the Japanese people in general now for what happened 60 to 70 years ago, is pretty sad. They need to be educated about it, just as we all should be educated about our pasts, both the good and the bad.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 01-15-2008 at 06:39 PM.

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