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Thread: for TjD and those who follow the Mahamudra tradition

  1. #1
    prana Guest

    for TjD and those who follow the Mahamudra tradition


    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>i'm just waiting for the day when i finally figure out how to concentrate perfectly[/quote]
    Please allow me to lend a hand.

    Please note the texts in "quotes" are mine :)

    Here are some quotes from the Dharmakaya discourses.

    While practicing meditation, thoughts will continue to arise from time to time. Simply ecognize the arising of a thought in your mind, nd pay very little attention to the content of that thought. All you need to recognize is that the thought has arisen. Whether you consider it a bad thought or a good thought is irrelevant in his context. If a thought arises that is hockingly bad, do not entertain any guilt about it, and if it is a magnificent, virtuous, heroic hought, do not become excited about it. If one can rest undistractedly in an awareness of the present moment,then the vipashyana instructions contained in this issue of Shenpen Ösel, when accompanied by the appropriate direct transmission, will not only be of great interest nd great benefit but can become the one ufficient path that will lead the practitioner to the understanding, direct experience, and full ealization of selflessness, the emptiness of henomena, and the emptiness of consciousness. If one is still having difficulty resting ndistractedly in an awareness of the present moment, one needs to practice shamatha until one an. If one has difficulty practicing shamatha in the rather formless way of not following after
    thoughts of the past or inviting thoughts about the future, then one should practice shamatha with a support. The most common support, as
    Rinpoche mentions, is to follow the breath. There are five additional supports for the practice of hamatha contained in this issue.

    If one is still having difficulty achieving the xperience of shamatha, then one needs to practice ngöndro to remove karmic obstacles to
    meditation; to create openness, surrender to the eachings, and proper motivation; to accumulate irtue and positive spiritual energy; and to
    induce the merging of one’s own mind with the nlightened aspect of the guru’s mind, thereby rawing into one’s mental continuum the
    blessings of the enlightened state transmitted by he root and lineage gurus.

    ... for vipashyana to be stable, it is necessary hat we initially calm our minds through the practice of shamatha. If you have received the pointing-out of vipashyana, then the subsequent practice of shamatha will only increase and tabilize the lucidity of your recognition.

    When one is practicing shamatha in these ways, for some people it happens relatively quickly that their minds come to rest, for other people it takes a long time and seems to be very difficult. If the latter is the case, do not become discouraged at how long it takes to develop a state of stable shamatha.

    "The mind initially for a layperson is in fact, incredibly noisy. As the meditator begins to enter shamata, it is not that the thoughts have become more, it is merely that the mind is beginning to understand and become aware of the noisiness of the mind.

    The state of Shamata, many good and bad feelings, sensations and thoughts may arise. Becoming attached, via paying special attention and adding more thoughts to these thoughts, will cause the mind to return to samsara. If one watches as a doctor watches a patient, the thought evetually has runs out of fuel and dies away.

    Much bliss is sometimes encountered during Shamata. Attachment to this bliss will also affect future benefits of shamata. If one enters a meditation session in search for such bliss, the mind becomes gross and aggrovated in the thoughts of craving and attachement."

    "Sitting in meditation posture -
    I know this is against what some of us on this forum in the past believed. I have never mentioned it before because I felt there was no need to cause more arguments, but for the sake of meditation, I add..."

    1. One should try to sit in the lotus position, whereby the feet are on the thighs, if this is not possible, then a half lotus or cross legged posture is acceptable.
    2. The hands should form a mudra. The right palm over the left and the thumbs come together to connect the two psychic nerves.
    3. The back to be straight as an arrow. here Lama writes - The reason why it's necessary to sit up straight when you're meditating is that your body and your mind are very con-nected. Specifically, your mind rides portant, but when you're actually
    mind will be on, or is founded in, the winds or energies, which depend upon the channels which are present within your body."
    I have had this experience in my meditation, that the mind does indeed settle itslef on your winds in your psychic nerves, please do indeed pay attention to this fact, of which I have been ignorant for over 23 years.
    4. The upper arms are to be spread like the wings of the vulture.
    5. The chin should be tucked in, that is the neck is slightly bent forward
    6. The sixth aspect of this posture is to keep your tongue on the roof of your mouth.
    7. Your gaze. Initially, it is okay to vclose your eyes fully until the mind has settled, however, eyes should be left half open, and the gaze forward about 3 meters in front. The eyes should not be focussed on any particular object. Don't direct attention to what you see.

    The great Tilopa speaks...
    The body is without meaning, empty like a bamboo stalk. The mind is like the midst
    of space. It is inconceivable. Rest relaxed within that, without letting it go or placing it. Rest relaxed in that state without sending it out, or placing it in, letting it go or attempting to place it. . . . [If mind has no direction, it is mahamudra.] . . . with this you will attain unsurpassable awakening.

    The conceptualized maintenance of vows actually causes you to impair the
    meaning of samaya. Without mental directedness or mental activity, be free of
    all intentionality. Thoughts are self-arisen and self-pacified like designs on the
    surface of water. If you do not pass beyond the meaning which is not abiding
    and not conceptualizing or focusing, then through not passing beyond that, you
    do not pass beyond or transgress samaya. This is the torch which dispels all
    obscurity or darkness.
    If, free of all intention, you do not abide in extremes, you will see without exception the meaning of all the Buddha’s teachings or of all the takas, the sections of the Buddha’s teachings. If you rest in this you will be liberated from the prison of samsara.
    If you rest evenly within this, all of your wrongdoing and obscurations will be burned.
    This is called for those reasons the torch of the doctrine.

    elsewhere on discourse, Lama writes
    people who could be, strictly speak-ing, extraordinarily intelligent, are in the long, term or in effect foolish, in that they have no interest in something that is exactly what they need.

    TjD, I hope by reading these tects, you will find much wisdom duriong your meditation.

    I know the ideas expressed in this page (thread) are totally against what many of you believe here in this forum. Please understand that I have previously respected your ideas and arguments, by not aggrovating the discussion, and here, as well, I am trying my best NOT to aggrovate anyone's ideas. This is merely for the progress of a fellow meditator. I appreciate your understanding.

  2. #2
    Repulsive Monkey Guest


    Well presented, good thoughtfullness, obvious sense of compassion.

    Keep up the good work brother!

  3. #3
    prana Guest
    Repulsive Monkey :)

    I wondered for a while if I should add any further, but here goes.


    Eventually, in your practise, you will recognise paths of energy in your body. There are 3 which I have experienced, but many at which has been spoken by Buddha. However, the 3 being the main channels, the central, left and right channels.

    The left and right channels branch from the left and right nostrils, and spirals its way down to the center of the navel, in a "W" shape, where it meets the central channel. Here is some texts which I have found


    nine point breathing meditation. Mind is to be said to be like a rider that runs on the energy. And the energy runs on channels or pathways in the body. The principal channel runs from the crown of the head down the spine, called the central channel. To the right and left are the two smaller side channels. From there, it is said different branches originate. At the navel, there are sixty four different channels that branch out into thousands of little channels. It is said that the body lives from the abdomen. Kidneys, liver, digestive tract, stomach, all are in that area.
    You heart area is said to have eight principal channels which also branch into thousands of little ones. Your throat is said to have sixteen related to breathing, respiration, swallowing and such things. Your crown of the head is said to have thirty two channels. And your anus is said to have sixteen channels. The point is the main pathways, lesser pathways related to as being chakras, which then, it is said, branch into seventy two thousand of pathways when counted up together.
    Energy is said to run in these pathways. The energy of one's body. It is scientifically proved that if one brings ones concentration into the hand, one can increase the temperature and blood pressure and such. So we do have an actual flow of energy through our body and by our own concentration we can bring it to different points in the body and, for example, with concentration one can focus healing energy to different points of the body.

    It is an amazing accomplishedment in my opinion for someone to have realised their own two side channels via Shamata because one associates the properties of each of the channels with the nature of the mind.

    One technique used by many a Tibetan masters is to calm the mind via the 9 point breathing technique. I have seen this taught a few different ways, but nevertheless I have found them both very beneficial in calming the mind.

    The first method, as taught by Lama Tsongkhapa is as follows

    1. One inhales through the right nostril, and exhales via the right
    2. One then inhales through the right nostril and exhales via the left nostril.
    3. One inhales through the right channels and exhales through both nostrils.
    Repeat this process with the left nostril
    4. One inhales through the left nostril and exhales through the left
    5. One inhales throug the left nostril and exhales through the right
    6. One inhales through the left nostril and exhales thorugh both nostrils
    7. One inhales througg both nostrils and exhales through the right
    8. One inhales through both nostrils and exhales through the left
    9. One inhales through both nostrils and exhales through both nostrils.
    With this, one completes the 9 round breath.

    During inhalation, one breathes in blissful white energy, and with each exhalation, one breathes out black negative energy.

    The 14th Dalai Lama writes of a different technique in his book Mahamudra, whereby the nine round breath is a little simplified.

    1. One inhales through the right nostril and exhales gently through the left
    2. One repeats but exhales a little forcefully
    3. Repeat 1

    4. One inhales through the left nostril and exhales gently through the right
    5. One repeats but exhales a little forcefully
    6. Repeat 4

    7. One inhales through both nostrils and exhales through both nostrils
    8. One repeats 7 but exhales slightly forcefully
    9. Repeat 7

    During practise, I find it helpful to follow the path of the two psychic nerves up and down, as if a ball of light travels in a tiny drinking straw. These straws are luminous and highly visible.

    These two paths travel on each side of the body, like pillars and join into the navel energy center.

    I should also mention that doing the 9 round breathing exercise before each meditation session is incredibly beneficial, as is helps calm the mind from its coarser state to the subtler state.

  4. #4
    Xebsball Guest

    I have a newbie question - sorry for invanding your topic with this

    BTW, why are there different types (or lineages) of buddhism?
    Shouldnt people just follow the basic Buddha teachings and make their own path?

    "You will never need to feel weak, helpless, indecisive, not fascinating or ashamed of your genital dimensions. GOOD-BYE Humiliation. Bullies, Karate Experts, Boxing Champions, traffic wardens will melt to pulp as you master every situation."
    Master Deltoo

  5. #5
    prana Guest
    Xeb :)

    True, incredibly true. There are many ways to understand the mind, and to understand all phenomena. For the teaching of Buddhism is a simple as this.

    The sound you hear is just that, sound.
    The taste is just that, taste.
    Sight is just that, sight.

    One of the kings, during the days of Shakyamuni's life, was enlightened upon hearing such a discourse, and without ever to meditate.

    However, different people have differing backgrounds karmas and thoughts. One who sees the cup of water, as a cup of putrid blood may require a different technique for arriving at another, who sees that the water as clear and comforting, to another being who finds water to be the elixir of life.

    Buddha taught many techniques, but the most practised technique in the Mahayana tradition is that of following the breathe, and that of practising loving kindness. Buddha believed that this technique was sufficient enough to enlighten the lifes of many suffering beings and it did well.

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Remember, Atisha had over 150 teachers? He respected them all, but when he heard the name of one – Lama Dharmarak****a – he would come out in goose-bumps. He explained this by saying, 'I received many teachings from many, many great gurus, but for me, Lama Dharmarak****a, who gave me the bodhicitta ordination and teachings on the method and wisdom of bodhicitta and the six paramitas, was the most helpful for my life'. This is very true. Sometimes techniques of deity meditation are extremely difficult, but bodhicitta meditation is so simple, so incredibly profound and real. That's why Atisha would shake when he heard the name of his main teacher of bodhicitta.


    For example, generating Bodhicitta, by practising loving kindness, one generates incredible merits not only for the others but also for oneself. However, the happiness one feels at the heart, can also be explained differently. For example, the subtler levels (on a different window) one who understands that generating Boddhicitta is actually energizing of "Bodhi" (of Buddha) "Citta" (mind) which are the subtlest indestructable energy drops life form.

    Lama Yeshe quotes on his discourse -
    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>This path is the most comfortable, most perfect, one hundred percent uncomplicated one, free of any danger of leading people to extremes. Without bodhicitta, nothing works. And most of all, your meditation doesn't work, and realizations don't come.

    Also, without bodhicitta it is very difficult to collect merits. You create them and immediately destroy them; by afternoon, the morning's merits have gone. It's like cleaning a room and an hour later making it dirty again

    Another exampple, on a trip to Thailand, of which I spent half the time in meditation and the other half sea-climbing, I found that monks meditate on corpses and practise walking meditation. This technique may seem eerie for the unwise, however, meditating on the destruction of ones vessels is the only truth of our life cycle, one of death. Meditation of mindfullness whilst walking (or just living day to day) is the best way to apply meditation to everyday life.

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The great thing about walking meditation is that you can do it anytime you are walking -- even in the noise and bustle of a big city. In fact it's especially good (even necessary) to do it in a big city, with all the distractions of people and noise, and shop windows tying to catch your attention[/quote]

    Lets take a look now at meditation on the death process. One may prefer to meditate on the physical processes of death. One sits and contemplates on the dissolution of ones skin, hair and nails into the elements, one meditates on ones muscles flesh and tendons, ligaments being destroyed into nothingness, one realises that the universal truth of the life-cycle death, this impernance, makes the attachment to ones body, ones possessions, a great suffering.
    On a different level, Padmasambhava teaches specifically, the process of death, whereby the subtler "illusory" body begins the process of death, whereby the energies dissolve into the central channels and then followed by the uniting of the red and white bodhimind drops.
    As you can see, Buddha taught many a technique for many a people. One is not neccesarily better than another, but one may be more suitable for another...

    But in here lies the question, who do you see when walks, only walks, and eats only eats and when reading this on the internet, only reads ?

    I would like to point out too ...
    What errors, negative implementations, are all faults of my own, and for which I apologise. They are not the faults of teachings of Buddhism !

  6. #6
    prana Guest
    The historical Buddha says

    Even if he had performed the greatest charity, it would have been better still more fruitful for him to take refugre with an accepting heart in the enlightenment one, in the Dhamma, and in all saintly persons. And had he done so, it would have been still more fruitful for him to uindertake with an accepting hjeart for the five precepts. And had he done so, it would have been betetr still to cultivate good will toward all just for the time it takes to milk a cow. And had he done all of these, it would have been better still more fruitful for him to develop the awareness of impernance just for the time it takes to snal ones fingers.

    -Velama Sutta

  7. #7
    Repulsive Monkey Guest


    Learning the principles and being able to practise them by yourself isn't always easy, thats why people usually have their Guru to guide them constantly back onto the principles throughout their life. By all means there is certainly not one single path to liberation and the variety of means that others have taken by them selves is rewarding and encouraging to all others. But lineages do exist for the purpose of tried and tested paths from Root Lama's and the such.

    We need guidance even in advanced states of being. Even the most obvious and safest of roads/paths usually have barriers and railings on their sides.

  8. #8
    prana Guest
    Why Death ?

    THe first and foremost reason for meditatin on death, is that we all must die (well, apart from income tax!). It may be tomorrow, it may be in ten years and it may for some be in a hundred years from now. And we all fear it. Beings who suffer immensely in this life, may seek escape from death, whereas beings that find great pleasures of life become notoriously insecure with the onset of death.

    Death brings the not only pain and suffering, but the knowledge that it is futile to hang on to anything remotely solid in this world. It is as though, you have fallen curiously in love in a dream to a manisfestation of a lover, and you decide to become strongly attached to this being. Being awaken from this dream body state is incredibly saddening, the onset of attachment and love, the root cause of suffering. One has worked all their lifes, to make money, to buy a house, to raise a family, and somehow, remain in the dark with regards to the fact that all beings must die. Speaking of death, especially in the western world, is a subject much left only till when it is too late.

    The gross body, the subtle body and what I would call, the Buddha Body.

    As I mentioned before, one starts to meditate on the coarser body, one begins to become more aware of the subtler body. This is the beauty of Buddhism, it does not force anyone to believe or accept any doctrines, but prefers for the mind "scientist" to transcend into their own mind and seek their own experiences.

    In Buddhism, there are considered 3 states bodies, the coarse, the subtle "illusory" body and the subtlest indestructable energy mind, I prefer to call "Buddha Body". These names of course, are purely my own perception, make up and are referred to by many other ways. The coarser body is made of bones, flesh, blood and skin.
    The illusory body is made up of meridian systems, flowing with winds.
    The Buddha Body, which consists of Buddha nature, the indestructable drops that are responsible for the process of "death" and "rebirth", the energy that is changing, dynamic, bllissful and indescribeable in any words of any language. It is like explaining the colour of white to a blind man, or perhaps, in our perspective, it is like explaining the "Qi" to one that has not the chance to recognise it (of which I must encourage you to keep training !!! hehe).

    The illusory body is comprised, as we speak of earlier, three main channels, entangled in energy centers, called Chakras (Wheels). In Tantra, there are considered to be 72,000 meridians of the body, but we are unconcerned with these channels. The realisation of these channels are a by-product of ones meditation, much like seeing trees whilst travelling on the freeway towards a distant place.

  9. #9
    prana Guest
    Ananda and the Buddha

    Buddha took a handkerchief and tied a knot in it. He then asked Ananda what he saw. To which, Ananda replied, a knot on the handkerchief. Buddha then continued to tie another knot on the existing knot, and asked Ananda what he saw, to which he replied "knot on the handkerchief". He then proceeded to tie more and more knots, and each time, asking the same question.
    Then Buddha pulls on the knots to try to untangle the knots all at the one time, to which Ananda replied, it is impossible, ne needs to untangle the knots in the reverse order that it was tangled.

    With the understanding that the channels of the human illusory body is entagled in knots, it is during ones death, that these knots are untangled in their respective orders.

    The teachings of Padmasambhava

    The death process actually begins during ones life. Each part of our system, organs begins to deteriorate, and as time goes by, our body becomes less and less usable. It is as if, we are returning to the burth process. Of which, we truly are.

    But In the Tibetan system of understanding death, we pay attention to the process that is happenning to the illusory body. The central channels and the two side channels are our most concerned psychic nerves, for which we will pay attention. During the death process ( and is it said, also during waking, sleeping, dreaming, and in fact, with the onset of every thought ) the signs of the process of dissolution begins. It is with the ingenenuity, this great realisation, that the Tibetan system of meditation pays much attention to what goes on in our subtler bodies.

    As the energies start to abide into the central channel, the two side channels have ceased to breath. One returns to the wisdom body of non-duality.

    Earth Dissolves into Fire, One feels heavy, as if the body is settling into the ground. The visions of material things start to melt. Visions turn into mere mirage of what they were. Attachment to sightly materialism becomes futile.
    When water dissolves into fire, one feels dry. Sensations cease, one feels numb. This is the onset of equalizing wisdom. Energy of attachment dissipates as the attachment to good and bad sensations disappear.
    When fire dissolevs into wind, ones breathing weakens. The notion of smell disappears and one feels cold.
    When wind element dissolves into space, the breathing stops altogether, all coarser bodily functions ceases. The energy of competitiveness, of pride of individuality is dissolved. One sees a vision of a candle flame.

    At this point, it is said, that EEG says that you are medically dead.

    However the illusory body, at this point, which was the causation of the trappings of our subtlest Bodhimind drops begins its transition. The white bodhimind drops, which subside in the crown center begins to descend down towards the heart chakra, one sees the onset of great white light. Next, the red bodhimind drops, begins to ascend from the secret root chakras of the body, one sees a great orange light, as it travels to meet at the main heart chakra.

    The two drops then meet, one sees the vision of pure darkness. Tibetans equate this to the night sky just before dawn. Finally, one passes into the realm pure non-dualistic mind.

    It is at this point, the heart chakra, the last knot of the causation of the human rebirth begins to untangle. This is the crucial state, to understand the process of this final dissolution is the target practise of Buddhist yogins and yoginis. Usually, for a being, driven by the consciousness pull of karma, one misses this state and fall helplessly into the next rebirth. One begins the process of reincarnation.

    However, it is in this state one seeks to settle their minds, without entering the process of death and rebirth, one sits in this unified energy mass. It is the Buddhamind, the essence, the creator, and the most basic, non-dualistic, mind that one trains to remain in. This is the secret to attainig wisdom mind via all the teachings of Buddhism, the reactionless, senseless formless deathless realm.

    Meditation ?

    It makes sense now why people meditate. To train the mind to remain in the state of awareness, to seek and to understand why one should not react, one should not hate, one should not like, one should not become attached. Of course, this is easier said than done, and by any means, this realisation is not found by many, but it is through the teachings of Padmasambhava, his loving kindness to have traversed through the processes of birth and death, to teach us how to prepare for the processes of birth and death. However, one sees clearly now, even conceptualy, the reactions of the 5 gates , such as lust, attachment, hate, all lead to suffering now and suffering at ones death.

    It makes sense that we should seek in our meditation, to train the mind to fall out of the cycle of death and rebirth, the cycle of suffering. To maintain awareness of the processes of dissolutioin, to train the mind to be free from the 5 gates of worldly attachment, but like I said, it is easier said, than it is done. It also make sense that in Vipassana, we teach the mind to remain still, in perfection and to remain in non-duality.

  10. #10
    prana Guest
    I hope as I write, I do not put forth the feeling of pride, which I know in the past some have also seen. I also wish, that whatever I have written, you do not be clouded by what may be on own shortcomings, english skills, disrespect in anway, as these are all my faults.

    I hope that you can see beyond these words, and see the true teachings which have been passed on by the Historical Buddha's, by the great Padma Sambhava's, the great Mahasiddas Tilopa, Naropa, Milarepa, and the great Lama Tsongkhapa, the Dalai Lama, the teachings of the Panchen Lama.

    I hope that these words will help generate the curiosity energies in your mind, to search for your own truth, of which is my intention.

    All faults, disrespect, possible errors, misunderstandings are all faults of mine and mine only!

    May all beings receive the great energies of the teachers, to practise the Dharma, and to liberate suffering.

  11. #11
    Xebsball Guest
    Very informative, thanks :D

    I'll save it on my computer so i can read it better later.

    "You will never need to feel weak, helpless, indecisive, not fascinating or ashamed of your genital dimensions. GOOD-BYE Humiliation. Bullies, Karate Experts, Boxing Champions, traffic wardens will melt to pulp as you master every situation."
    Master Deltoo

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