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Thread: Weird stuff in TCM...... List it!

  1. #16
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    Toad

    Now I wonder about the other four deadly venoms...
    Toad Venom In Cancer Treatment: Traditional Chinese Medicine Is Well-tolerated, Study Shows

    ScienceDaily (Sep. 24, 2009) — Huachansu, a Chinese medicine that comes from the dried venom secreted by the skin glands of toads, has tolerable toxicity levels, even at doses eight times those normally administered, and may slow disease progression in some cancer patients, say researchers from The University of Texas M. D. Anderson Cancer Center.

    The results from the Phase I clinical study, a collaborative research project between M. D. Anderson and Fudan University Cancer Hospital in Shanghai, are reported in the online Early View feature of the journal Cancer. The study marks the first time a formal clinical trial has examined the relationship between huachansu dose and toxicity, although the drug is common in China and approved by the Chinese Food and Drug Administration.

    Huachansu is widely used to treat patients with liver, lung, colon and pancreatic cancer at oncology clinics in China. Chinese clinical trials conducted since the 1970s have demonstrated the anti-cancer properties of huachansu, citing total response rates of 10 percent and 16 percent observed in patients with advanced hepatocellular carcinoma and lung cancer, respectively1,2.

    "Studying traditional Chinese medicine such as huachansu is new to American research institutions, which have been skeptical and slow to adopt these complementary treatments. However, it is important to understand its potential role in treating cancer," says Lorenzo Cohen, Ph.D., one of the paper's authors and director of the Integrative Medicine Program at M. D. Anderson. "We wanted to apply a Western medicine-based approach to explore the role of the toad venom compound in cancer patients and test if it is possible to deliver a more potent dose without raising toxicities or side effects."

    The clinical trial was conducted at the Fudan University Cancer Hospital while M. D. Anderson provided training and ongoing consultation. The institutions collaboratively designed the trial that was approved by both institutional review boards. M. D. Anderson and Fudan University Cancer Hospital signed a sister institution agreement in 2003, creating a framework for research, educational and clinical collaboration.

    The typical dose of huachansu used in China is approximately 15 milliliters of drug per meter squared of body mass (mL/m2). In the study, 15 patients with stage III or IV hepatocellular (liver) carcinoma, nonsmall cell lung cancer or pancreatic cancer received one of five dose levels ranging from 10 mL/ m2 up to 90 mL/m2 from January 2005 through July 2006. The treatment was repeated daily for 14 days followed by seven days off (one cycle). After two cycles, most patients received other treatments. Quality control methods were put in place to ensure huachansu of a uniform and consistent lot.

    While the dose was up to eight times higher than conventional doses used in China, researchers observed only low toxicities or side effects. Eleven (73 percent) patients had no toxicities greater than the lowest grade measured. Importantly, no significant cardiac toxicity was observed and no significant changes in cancer-related symptoms occurred. Of the 15 patients who completed the treatment, six hepatocellular carcinoma patients (40 percent) had stable disease for a median of six months. One patient had a 20 percent reduction in tumor mass that lasted for more than 11 months.

    "Even though we saw no complete or partial response (reduction of disease by 30 percent or more) it is encouraging that the cancer did not progress in a large set of the hepatocellular carcinoma patients," says Zhiqiang Meng, principal investigator on the trial and an associate professor and deputy chair of the Department of Integrative Oncology at Fudan University Cancer Hospital, "Previous observations from studies conducted in China have shown that huachansu can inhibit tumor cell growth and improve immunologic function3. These findings, coupled with that knowledge, demonstrate the need for further clinical trials of this promising agent."

    A Phase II clinical trial comparing the effects of huachansu combined with gemcitabine (Gemzar®) to gemcitabine and placebo for patients with advanced pancreatic cancer is under way at the Fudan University Cancer Hospital in collaboration with M. D. Anderson.

    Both trials are part of the International Center of Traditional Chinese Medicine for Cancer funded by the National Cancer Institute. Anhui Jinchan Biochemistry Company, Ltd. provided the drug for this trial.

    In addition to Cohen, other M. D. Anderson faculty contributing to this study include Peiying Yang, MD, the Integrative Medicine Program in the Department of Medical Oncology; David Z. Chang, MD, Department of Gastrointestinal Medical Oncology; Zongxing Liao, MD, Department of Radiation Oncology; and Razelle Kurzrock, MD, Department of Investigational Cancer Therapeutics. In addition to Meng, other Fudan University researchers contributing to this study include Yehua Shen, MD; Wenying Bei, MD; Ying Zhang, MD; Yongqian Ge, MD; and Luming Liu, MD, PhD. Formerly of M. D. Anderson, Robert A. Newman, MD, now of New Chapter Inc. and Bob Thornton, MD, now of Merck & Co, Inc. also contributed to this study.
    Adapted from materials provided by University of Texas M. D. Anderson Cancer Center, via EurekAlert!, a service of AAAS.
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
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  2. #17
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    Since they banned DDT, which would not kill mammals, and started using some of this stuff you find on the Walmart shelves, which will kill you with a single sip, lots of stuff is dying off. Honey bees are just another I can think of. The stuff lingers too long and absorbs into everything.

    This stuff you all are describing. What is it for exactly. It sounds like it could be more of a health hazard than anything else.

  3. #18
    think it's weird that TCM practicioners use prescriptioned memorized points and then tries to make them sound mystical. That makes for a boring acupuncture practice

  4. #19
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    you can trip from chemicals excreated by certain toads. People on chemo smoke marijuana to rid them of the discomfort and increase appetite. I think God is trying to tell us something.

    not only that, but recent studies have shown that red wine, and chocolate (with high cocoa content) strengthens the immune system, as do orgasms.
    Yep..it's a sign from God alright.
    God wants us to pahr-tay!
    "My Gung-Fu may not be Your Gung-Fu.
    Gwok-Si, Gwok-Faht"

    "I will not be part of the generation
    that killed Kung-Fu."

    ....step.

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by TenTigers View Post
    God wants us to pahr-tay!
    yeah, right up to the point where he hits you w/a lightning bolt, flash flood or wildebeast stampede - he's just trying to get your guard down, is all! nasty god!

  6. #21
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    E Jiao (Donkey Gelatin)
    Lu Jiao Jiao (Deer Horn Gelatin)
    Bie Jia (Softshell turtle shell)
    Gui Ban (Turtle shell)
    Chan Su (Toad Poison)

    All good stuff!

    BTW, Wu Ling Zhi is Flying squirrel poop, not Bat poop.

    Cordyceps is the bomb! Great for Lung Cancer, TB - stops bleeding in the lungs! Also good for improving Lung Capacity for aerobic endeavors. Expensive but great! Gene, try it in powdered form from Mayway Corp. It will save lives!

    BTW, not all acupuncturists use prescribed memorized points...only the beginners do that. There is a real art and science to acupuncture.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by chusauli View Post
    E Jiao (Donkey Gelatin)
    Lu Jiao Jiao (Deer Horn Gelatin)
    Bie Jia (Softshell turtle shell)
    Gui Ban (Turtle shell)
    Chan Su (Toad Poison)

    All good stuff!

    BTW, Wu Ling Zhi is Flying squirrel poop, not Bat poop.

    Cordyceps is the bomb! Great for Lung Cancer, TB - stops bleeding in the lungs! Also good for improving Lung Capacity for aerobic endeavors. Expensive but great! Gene, try it in powdered form from Mayway Corp. It will save lives!

    BTW, not all acupuncturists use prescribed memorized points...only the beginners do that. There is a real art and science to acupuncture.
    Robert, how safe is cordyceps ?

  8. #23
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    Very safe - but buy a good brand like Mayway's, or other Taiwanese manufacturer of powdered versions.

    The real question is if it is safe for you...if you have a phlegm condition now, I would say cordyceps is contraindicated.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by chusauli View Post
    Very safe - but buy a good brand like Mayway's, or other Taiwanese manufacturer of powdered versions.

    The real question is if it is safe for you...if you have a phlegm condition now, I would say cordyceps is contraindicated.
    Phlegm?
    Nope, no such issues.
    I recall some rumours that the Chinese olympic athletes were on it years ago and it worked really well, that is why it is a banned substance list I think.

  10. #25
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    I get my cordyceps from Aloha Medicinals in Las Vegas.

    They grow it on organic matter and its really good.

    Ye Ming Sha is Bat Poop
    Can Sha is silkworm poop
    Bai Hua She is a pit viper


    All good things to use in dit da and other conditions.
    Be well, train hard

    Dale Dugas
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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    Phlegm?
    Nope, no such issues.
    I recall some rumours that the Chinese olympic athletes were on it years ago and it worked really well, that is why it is a banned substance list I think.
    I do not know if it is banned in athletic events... I do not think it is.

    Earthworms (Di Long) are also great for increasing O2 uptake. The Chinese athletes eat it raw every morning for diving and track and field.

    I say try the cordyceps. Its great for those over 40...

  12. #27
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    Robert,

    Do you have people that get a little weirded out if and when you use the various forms of excrement in formulas?
    Be well, train hard

    Dale Dugas
    Shizi, Jiulong Baguazhang Instructor
    Master Level Dit Da Jow Manufacturer
    New England School of Acupuncture Master's Program

    Boston Baguazhang

    Combat Iron Palm Iron Vest Training

    Boston Baguazhang on Youtube
    IKFF Forum

    CDIA Supplies
    PO Box 35
    Quincy, MA
    02171-0001

    617-595-8097

    info@bostonbaguazhang.com

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Bagua View Post
    Robert,

    Do you have people that get a little weirded out if and when you use the various forms of excrement in formulas?
    No, I just don't tell them what it is...

    Most of the stuff I use for patient compliance is either capsules, pills or customized powders that are encapsulated.

    Raw herbs is used in my Dit Da Jow, Tiet Sa Jeung Jow, and my special mojo juice - the Always Spring Wine.

    For Dit Da, I already have powdered herbs on hand.

  14. #29
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    there was a MLM company called Metagenics that repackaged Chinese patent medicines, so instead of saying Dog Pen1s/Gecko Balls formula, it said,"TC 38" or something. Nice packaging, slick brochures depicting people in white lab coats and huge stainless steel tanks and pristine labs and warehouses. Meanwhile they were taking the Po Chi Yune that was made in some cellar, and sticking different labels on the bottles.
    Not sure if they are still in operation, but their idea was good. Repackage the TCM products for the Western world.
    "My Gung-Fu may not be Your Gung-Fu.
    Gwok-Si, Gwok-Faht"

    "I will not be part of the generation
    that killed Kung-Fu."

    ....step.

  15. #30
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    Its already been done. That is the way most herbals outside of Chinatown are sold these days...

    Just look at Mayway, Evergreen, QualiHerbs, Brion Herbs, Blue Poppy, and others.

    I say NY is pretty behind the times, especially with the Chinatown type practitioners.

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