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Thread: Lower Back Ache

  1. #46
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    Bulging disc, perhaps?

    Windmills are where you hold a dumbell, say 50 pounds over your head in one arm, and reach down and touch the floor with the other, then come back up.

    scroll down to the middle of both these pages:

    http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=193

    http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do...itan?id=459681

    helps to have instruction here.

  2. #47
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    Lumbarred from Pain-Free Mobility? By Coach Scoot Sonnon
    http://www.circularstrengthmag.com/23/sonnon.html

    Back Mobility Extreme by HeadCoach Doug
    http://www.circularstrengthmag.com/25/szolek.html

    Lower Spine in WW Beginner by Connie, CST
    http://www.circularstrengthmag.com/37/brown.html

    I hope these articles will help you.

    Much Success,
    Bao
    Bao Tran, Certified CST Coach
    www.cstwarrior.typepad.com
    Your Success is our Success

  3. #48
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    Thanks chaps.

    Bao, thanks but, the first one in Scott Sonnon's article I can just about handle, and I can handle the third one, very very gently, to a certain degree... but the second one...?! No chance in hell!

    He's not seriously suggesting being able to do that to help this condition is he?! I just skim-read the article so maybe that 's not what he meant but it makes me scream in pain just thinking about it!

  4. #49
    Maybe try isometric ab tensing? Zatsiorsky recommends this in his book, and advises 3-5 second holds, 10-15 times, 3-4 times daily. He also say there should be no stress on the discs when doing this. Hope this helps.

  5. #50
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    Mat,

    Thank for looking at the articles I have recommended. Please reread the articles carefully and by no means you are expected to do all the advance materials. Everything in CST/RMAX is progressive. For your own edification, I would recommend that you take a look at Warrior Wellness and BodyFlow to better understand the articles. In my opinion and perspective, it is not only important to "specifically" strengthen your back alone but also to completely recover your mobility. You can specifically strengthen your back but how well can you move it dynamically and functionally? Here are some Circular Strength Training myths that might help you to think about your present condition. I am using myth because it is all a belief system. I am sharing with you my belief system. It is up to you to believe in them or not.

    CST Myth 1. Global, local, Global (GLG) perspective.
    CST Myth 2. Muscular isolation and linear movement is not possible.
    CST Myth 3. Structure, Breathing, Movement (The Holy Trinity)

    Myth 1.
    Look at your body globally first objectively, then look and examine your weak or painfully site locally (subjectively), then objectively look back at your body globally in relation to the local site to examine how your local site has effect your world (body). Your whole body is interconnected and communicates information to each other much faster than you think. Perhaps there are other sites may have caused your localized weakness/pain specifically? How does the localize site affect the rest of the body? Most people think locally, try if you can to see the greater picture. I am not saying to ignore the local site, but think GLG.

    Myth 2.
    Instead of thinking linear movements or isolating exercises for your back like hyperextension (superman), please research of ways of "progressively" moving your back in 3 dimensions. I highly recommend visiting a physical therapist, a sport doctor, and/or a certified medical exercise specialist to listen to their opinion and adopt possible preventive and rehab techniques. CST/RMAX does have some tools, which may help you with your recovery. In CST, moving linearly or isolating your back will NOT recover your gross or refine movements of your back. From our perspective we want both strength and mobility, most importantly we want a healthy back. Please do not use bodybuilding or sport specific exercises to rehab or for recovery, but address it from a health related perspective.

    Myth 3.
    Structure, movement, breathing (the holy trinity). Your back condition can be examine by understanding your own structure, movement, and breathing. Maybe you should research or examine your own holy trinity. I know from my own experience that you probably had poor breathing skills and structural problems that lead to your limited movement in your back. Why? In CST, we understand that breathing plus structure = movement. Therefore, less than optimal breathing skills and poor structure will result in less than optimal movement. This can be understood better if you have a martial arts background or studied a physical discipline like yoga. If this true, then logically you should address your breathing and structure. A good program to help you understand your breathing and structure is RMAX’s “Be Breathe”. I hope my explanation of the three myths will help your recovery and if you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to contact me.

    Yours in CST,
    Bao
    Last edited by FooFighter; 10-18-2005 at 06:52 PM.
    Bao Tran, Certified CST Coach
    www.cstwarrior.typepad.com
    Your Success is our Success

  6. #51

    Back Treatment

    Before you begin to strengthen your back. Best make sure that the inflammation around the vertebral disc's has subsided.... otherwise your only going to re-injure the site.

    From a TCM point of view, treatment via acupuncture and tui na massage would benefit you greatly.

    The general points prescription would be BL23, GB30, BL36, BL37, BL40, BL57 and BL60..... coupled together with the Ah'Shi points and maybe some HwaTouJiaJi points either side of the spine where the herniation is located to reduce the inflammation and restore the free flow of Qi and blood to the local area.

    Cupping (especially moving / walking cupping) will certainly help to relax the back muscles and improve blood circulation.

    An important factor here is that you keep the lower back as warm as possible while training, as well as resting and to protect the lower back from cold damp weather conditions and/or environments.

    Once you have reduced the inflammation around the vertebral disc's, then you can begin to strengthen your back via exercises such as dorsal raises, static dishes (front and back).

    But remember that muscles groups SHOULD ALWAYS be worked in pairs i.e. Back Muscles / Abdominal muscles, Biceps / Triceps, Quads / Hamstrings, etc, etc.

    Ideally your back muscles should be twice as strong as your abdominal muscles, as the back muscles are responsible for holding your body erect.

    Good luck.
    Dave Stevens

  7. #52
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    Thanks Bao.

    I've read it more carefully since.

    Myth 1 is a nicely written mindset. I'm sure I can incorporate that into my training/recovery.

    Myth 2: I would have never considered such a separation or isolation of muscle groups, so that's not a myth I've ever subscribed to, but thanks anyway.

    Myth 3 is completely unapplicable to me. As a martial artist of 15 years exp, and always applying it to everyday life and adjusting my movement and posture patterns along the way, I know my posture and breathing problems are very few. In my case my back problems result from repeated severe trauma;

    1) falling 20 ft out of a tree;
    2) messing up a breakfall to try and avoid injuring somebody else in my path;
    3) hardcore pretty much full contact unprotected sparring ending in receiving a double leg onto concrete and a tree root (that was the worst and the most stupid!)
    4) a kungfu exercise (that was a postural problem - momentary lapse of concentration);
    5) continued coughing for three weeks due to pneumonia and the onset of asthma.

    Thanks also Pakmei, I'm still waiting!... but the swelling has gone. I do always exercise muscle groups in groups, I don't try to isolate, and I am receiving intensive acupuncture (dunno which points but since I'm not doing it to myself, I'm leaving it to the experts!)

    What's a dorsal raise, and what's a static dish?

  8. #53
    Does your acupuncture doctor do chi gung massage therapy? That would pop the disc back into place, if that is what it is. Dont ever lift weights again. It is a common myth that weights strengthen the body, but really they just put too much stress on the joints and tendons. In the future it will only get worse. You dont have to be physically strong to be the best at martial arts. More internally strong. You need chi gung training and tai chi.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by kung fu goat
    Does your acupuncture doctor do chi gung massage therapy?
    No, he's a real acupuncturist! j/k. But apart from being a qualified doctor and acupuncturist he's a massage therapist trained in centuries-old anma tradition (he's blind - anma is the Japanese name for the blind masseur tradition).

    Quote Originally Posted by KFG
    That would pop the disc back into place, if that is what it is.
    It isn't out of place. Check out the lung thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by KFG
    Dont ever lift weights again. It is a common myth that weights strengthen the body, but really they just put too much stress on the joints and tendons.
    I didn't really lift weights anyway, I find them excrutiatingly boring. But since you're here: properly done weights strengthen the body. Same as kung fu, tai chi, chi kung etc. Improperly done they will damage the body. Same as kung fu, tai chi, chi kung etc.

    There are so many myths in the world, and so many myth debunkers I don't knwo how anyone supposedly debunking one can make such a blanket statement about anything that has been such a subject of scientific debate and resulting evidence and expect to be taken seriously.

    I would guess you've never really lifted weights either...? What sources have lead you to conclude that about weights?

    I know this is pretty ****ty of me to give you grief when you come on the thread trying to help and for that I do apologise, and I do thank you for trying, but I suggest you hang around here and read some of the history on weight training if you have no experience yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by KFG
    You dont have to be physically strong to be the best at martial arts.
    I didn't say or imply this anywhere. I want my back (and associated muscles in the surrounding areas) to be stronger so I don't get this back problem again. I am on no impossible quest to be 'the best at martial arts' and I know my limits.

    But, if you want to be better at martial arts, strength is one of the things it would help to improve. It has been said many times, between people equal in all other attributes strength would be the deciding factor, and it can often give someone the edge over technically better people.

    Quote Originally Posted by KFG
    More internally strong.
    Meaning?

    Quote Originally Posted by KFG
    You need chi gung training and tai chi.
    I do chi kung most days. I tried tai chi in depth, five hours of class per week and two plus hours of private, for three years. It was great but not really me. And again, not really meaning to be a b!tch but if you want to help someone instead of giving out your particular world view you may like to diagnose the situation before jumping to conclusions.

    Thanks very much for your time though and cool name!

  10. #55
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    Oh yeah Pak Mei, what's cupping?

  11. #56
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    It is a common myth that weights strengthen the body, but really they just put too much stress on the joints and tendons.

    Reply]
    I don't even know WHERE to begin with a comment like that!!

    I have two bulging disks @ L4, and L5. I have found Supermans, and dry land swimming (Not to mention real swimming) To be the bets healers, and strengtheners as of yet.

    I do them with wrist and ankle weights, and my goal is to eventually build my lower back to be like a body builder on steriods (Without the roids). I may never acheive it, but the attempt has pretty much given my a pain free existence again.
    Those that are the most sucessful are also the biggest failures. The difference between them and the rest of the failures is they keep getting up over and over again, until they finally succeed.


    For the Women:

    + = & a

  12. #57

    Lower Back

    Static Dish: is where you lay on the floor ensuring your lower back is firmly against the floor. Lift your shoulders and feet approximately 6" off the floor and hold for about 30 seconds.

    Or alternatively lay on the floor stomach down, place your elbows directly beneath your shoulders and lift your body off the floor by tensing your stomach.

    Dorsal Raises: Same sort of exercise as what you called "Supermans", but there are many ways and varieties of perfoming this exercise.

    Cupping: is therapy where the practitioner creates a vacuum inside a glass cup which then place of either specific points on the back, etc or used as sliding cupping over your oiled back (up and down the Bladder channel).

    Works very well for all back type pain, as it creates a deeper massage sensation, where by the vacuum encourages new blood circulation tot he muscle tissue, thus helping the relax them.
    Dave Stevens

  13. #58

    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Mel
    It might surprise you, but a very good exercise you can do for your lower back is a very low, deep, prolonged horse stance.
    You should get to the point where you can stand in the horse stance for an hour everyday.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougadam
    You should get to the point where you can stand in the horse stance for an hour everyday.
    LOL, you should be my secretary... wanna reorganize my schedule? Some of us have jobs you know!

    But seriously, can manage half an hour without trying just washing up/cooking at a low Japanese sink!

    And cheers Pak Mei. The cupping is not going to happen. Would be difficult and time-consuming to find a practitioner and get the therapy regularly, when perhaps I could spend better time at the acupuncturist (did I mention he is magical and his clinic is five minutes' walk away from my house? ) and exercising.

  15. #60
    And besides the aforementioned horse stance there are squats.

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