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Thread: Boxing

  1. #61
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    i would think that crosses are better setups for uppercuts as it can turn the opponents head a little, but im no boxer.
    where's my beer?

  2. #62
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    Wouldn't a shot that sent the energy from one cheek to the other ie.sideways have to hit from the side ie. a hook or hooked cross?

    I thought that a cross was a straight power punch.
    '"4 ounces deflect 1000 pounds" represents a skill potential, if you stand in front of a 1000 pound charging bull and apply four ounces of deflection, well, you get the picture..' - Tai Chi Bob

    "My car has a lot of parts in there that I don't know about, don't know what they're called, haven't seen them and wouldn't know what they were if someone pointed them out to me .... doesn't mean they're not in there." - Evolution Fist

  3. #63
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    Cross vs. straight

    Hmm, I always wondered about this too. I think I know what a cross is, someone correct me if I'm wrong. Stand in a boxers' stance, with your elbows down. Let's take the lead hand, vertical fist. A staight lead (jab) goes straight out. A lead hook takes a curved path, making impact with the side of the opponents head. Another punch, which I think is the cross, is if the opponents head is already on the inside of your lead, then you just turn your forearm towards horizontal and strike to the side, lifting slightly the elbow and driving your now horizontal fist into the opponent's face. This is different from the other punches in that now your shoulder is not behind the punch at the moment of impact. Also, your vertical fist has become a horizontal fist, without twisting the wrist-the rotation takes place at your shoulder joint. I think this punch is pretty useful, I've used it in sparring and I see it sometimes in boxing. I usually do this with the lead arm, but one could also throw this punch with the rear. So, is this a cross, if not then what's this punch called?
    -FJ
    Last edited by fa_jing; 01-10-2002 at 08:58 AM.

  4. #64
    An added benefit of the cross is that your shoulder is raised, protecting your chin from a counter by your opponent.
    i'm nobody...i'm nobody. i'm a tramp, a bum, a hobo... a boxcar and a jug of wine... but i'm a straight razor if you get to close to me.

    -Charles Manson

    I will punch, kick, choke, throw or joint manipulate any nationality equally without predjudice.

    - Shonie Carter

  5. #65
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    Quick thought on the Right Cross

    The right cross begins in a very similar fashion to a Northern Style Gong Fu punch. The front hip joint will close which creates a horizontal force vector. From the perspective of the person throwing the punch, the energy travels from right to left. At the same time, The rear foot grinds off the ball of the foot. This is how the boxer puts his weight into the punch, it adds a back to front vector to the punch. When we combine the two vectors, we get a spiraling energy. Pretty much a Gong Fu punch in principle. The means are slightly different, but the ends are the same.

    To me, the big difference is in what the arm is doing. In my punch, the arm is “flung out” by the rotation of the body and lands with a “thud”. It produces less penetration than the cross, but more of an explosive feeling in the punchee’s body. Closer to a black jack. Hence, it is important in CMA to keep the elbow down.

    In a right cross, the body creates an additional spiral in the body. The arm is “launched” in a similar manner to my Taiji punch, as the arm comes out, it begins to spiral. The elbow turns from a bottom down to a bottom up position. At the end of a right cross, the thumb is usually pointing down. What makes the cross unique is this spiral in the arm movement. It gives the punch less of an explosive feel, but increases penetration. To me, a solid right cross feels more like getting hit with a bat than a black jack.

    Maybe we have a boxer who could get into it more?
    I have no idea what WD is talking about.--Royal Dragon

  6. #66

    Wink

    I believe they are only allowed to hit using the front of the knuckles, this would tend to rule out all other types of strikes.

    Many don’t realize the different but they have to punch though a glove. It’s a little different then punching with a bare hand. This changes the way, how a punch is delivered.

    Also the clinching that many do, look closely and you will see that they use their forearms to slice and cut as this action is being preformed. Anther thing that some boxers I used to know like to do is punch into major muscle groups in the arm. Has a tendency of making you drop the arm, not a good thing to do.

    Boxers are very tough and sophisticated in their art. They train to give and take. good people to work with.

    don't make the misstake that a young leaf did that is, to box with them. Use your art. If what you do happens to look like or resamble boxing then i wish you lots of luck/ they pick up very fast. so haveing or doing something that they haven't seen before may work for a little while.

    the longer you stay the more the danger.
    enjoy life

  7. #67
    Here is a way to check if you have good technique while throwing e.g. a right cross. Stand close to a wall with your right shoulder against the wall. Throw a right cross slow and observe the following:

    1. Does your elbow hit the wall?
    If it does you are not choosing the shortest path and some of the energy when connecting with the punch will "leak" from the elbow(simple physics). The punch is also more easily seen and may be countered/blocked.

    2. In the end stage is the shoulder protecting the jaw?
    Don't need explaining here...

    3. Are you relaxed until the last moment?
    Economy of motion and a faster punch.

    4. Do you hit with the first two knuckles?
    More of the energy hits the target due to a straight line from the shoulder, through the elbow and fist, and the cross is longer.

    5. When you pull the punch back the fist should follow a straight line back and in the end protecting the jaw(no dip in the movement).

    That was som right-cross theory. When adding movement, body positioning, hip movement etc. it actually gets very complexed. This is why boxers train fundametals a big portion of their time.

  8. #68
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    NIIIIIIICEE

    Care to go into more detail on point 3? I'm curious as to how you view the tensing on impact. Thanks
    I have no idea what WD is talking about.--Royal Dragon

  9. #69
    "The elbow turns from a bottom down to a bottom up position. At the end of a right cross, the thumb is usually pointing down. What makes the cross unique is this spiral in the arm movement."

    yup. There are some good posts here, ttt for a a response from nichiren.
    i'm nobody...i'm nobody. i'm a tramp, a bum, a hobo... a boxcar and a jug of wine... but i'm a straight razor if you get to close to me.

    -Charles Manson

    I will punch, kick, choke, throw or joint manipulate any nationality equally without predjudice.

    - Shonie Carter

  10. #70
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    For a standard stance( everything will be opposite for a south paw)- the left jab is the basic bread and butter of good boxing-
    its mechanics are different from other punches- so good jabbing takes a long time to learn well. The straight right is just that- a straight right... in earlier times people seldom led witha straight right. Nowadays folks with fast hands will sometimes shoot out a staright right. A cross is different- it is usually a counter punch- crossing over the left jab of the other fellow. Hooks and uppercuts are usually not lead weapons- though a good guy can close witha feinting jab and hook.
    Jabs, straight rights, hooks and upper cuts... basic building blocks--
    but the variations- permutations and combinations are many.

  11. #71
    Using the cross as a counter was on my list of things to point out, but ya beat me to it. Good post.
    i'm nobody...i'm nobody. i'm a tramp, a bum, a hobo... a boxcar and a jug of wine... but i'm a straight razor if you get to close to me.

    -Charles Manson

    I will punch, kick, choke, throw or joint manipulate any nationality equally without predjudice.

    - Shonie Carter

  12. #72
    3. Are you relaxed until the last moment?
    OK Water Dragon. I'm not a golden glove champion(16 matches 14 wins) but I will try to explain how to know if you throw a "relaxed cross".

    Take a ordinary tennis boll, bounch it with you r left jab and try to catch it with your right cross.when you throw the cross it should be relaxed and when you catch the boll you normally tense up. It is the same movement and physics while throwing a cross(not a jab).

    I can elabortate on the other punches and movements if you give me some time!!! Just say when... and what...

  13. #73
    how about some footwork drills?
    i'm nobody...i'm nobody. i'm a tramp, a bum, a hobo... a boxcar and a jug of wine... but i'm a straight razor if you get to close to me.

    -Charles Manson

    I will punch, kick, choke, throw or joint manipulate any nationality equally without predjudice.

    - Shonie Carter

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
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    Memphis, Tennessee, USA
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    160
    You guys have really turned this into a good topic. Nice job.
    Tae kwon do is not just a martial art, it is a way of life.

  15. #75
    Some footwork drills......

    If you have a training partner, try to stamp one of hes feet. He will of course try to stamp one of you feet. Shadow boxing is also a great exercise for the feet. Imagien§ a foe in front of you and hit him and counter him...

    Another good exercise is have a friend extend his arms and stand still. You move in and duck under his arms and throw punches. If you throw a punch(uppercut etc.) and feel that your balance is off you are doing something wrong!! Try agin...

    Have a guy holding mits and move towards you, to the sides or back. If you at any stage feel that you can't deliver a descent cross or a jab you aren't moving the feet ond are not keeping the proper distance(keepin a good distance is really important).

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