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Thread: Ancient Egyptian Martial Arts

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickey View Post
    Greetings,

    Andy Miles:

    A lot of the people in the Egyptian countryside are TRUE EGYPTIAN descendants. They have been displaced in their own homeland.

    mickey
    That whole region has been flipped more times than a short stack at denny's

    It is very difficult to ascertain if the people that live there now are descendants of the people who lived there over the millenia. In some cases yes, in others, no way.

    The pyramids were incredibly ancient when Ramses II was Pharaoh and in the time of Akhenaten they were also ancient. By the time of the last Pharaoh (Cleopatra who wasn't even an egyptian) the old dynasties were almost forgotten.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    It is very difficult to ascertain if the people that live there now are descendants of the people who lived there over the millenia. In some cases yes, in others, no way.

    The pyramids were incredibly ancient when Ramses II was Pharaoh and in the time of Akhenaten they were also ancient. By the time of the last Pharaoh (Cleopatra who wasn't even an egyptian) the old dynasties were almost forgotten.
    Actually it is true. The people of the countryside are closer to the roots of pre-Islamic Egypt. The more urban the city location, the more one see the varied post Islamic phenotypes and sociocultural mores. The more recent groups are Albanian and Turkish (1750's-1900) in the Egyptian landscape. In Pharoanic times, Greeks and Romans were representative of the foreign influences of the specific era!

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by mawali View Post
    Pharoanic times, Greeks and Romans were representative of the foreign influences of the specific era!
    Pharaonic times?

    They lasted a couple of thousand years!

    Don't forget the Assyrians, Sumerians, Hittites, Hebrews, Phoneticians, Minoans, Space Aliens (such as the Nordics, Reptilians and Annunaki).....etc!
    Last edited by Scott R. Brown; 04-30-2010 at 05:31 PM.

  4. #19
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    re

    Bloodlines may disappear but the language and religion of AE live on in the Copts. Christianity in Egypt took hold because all that was required was changing the names of the gods and some slight modifications of the story. But even the arab muslims cling to some of the traditions. Here is some info on combat sports in Egypt. Looks like there was an extensive body of knowledge around wrestling. The stick-fighting art is still practiced today though it is disguised as a dance most of the time.

    http://www.la84foundation.org/Sports...2/jsh1502b.pdf

    http://www.la84foundation.org/Olympi...UE1/ORUE1c.pdf



    Kostas Dervenis (http://www.pammachon.gr/) does an analysis in his book, The Martial Arts of Ancient Greece.

    http://store.innertraditions.com/Pro...&displayZoom=1

  5. #20
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    I dont see this as suprising

    pretty much every ancient culture had a form of wrestling

    I am pork boy, the breakfast monkey.

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  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Xiao3 Meng4 View Post
    Yeah I don't see any striking either.
    Could it be Egyptian salsa?

  7. #22
    On a serious note. There is no doubt that many ancient cultures had their martial arts, specially those which were empires with potent military forces.

    However, one must be vary of Mcdojo experts who will suddenly start teaching, say, Egyptian martial arts just to differentiate their product and make a quick buck.

    And while on this subject, does anyone know of any Indian martial arts that ressemble the Chinese Shaolin fighting arts, systems which they have supposed to have given birth to? Or is this yet another MA myth?

  8. #23
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    @Hardwork

    I actually went ot india to Kerala to train the Kalaripyattu. Unfortunately i couldn't find any really really good training. I tried both the north and southern styles. It is remarkebly similar to shaolin in terms of the basic skills and the stick combat. However i think this is a recent thing. There are records of indian monks doing exchanges in china so some of the technique could be exchanged either way. I certainly don't think Kalari has survived 1500 years unchanged and given birth to shaolin... no way.

    The northern style is pretty good, lots of qinna like applications and grappling. THere were no forms, just two man drills. The southern style is very fancy, some very nice two man weapon sets.

    We are all human, there is a lot of overlap in all styles. Has anyone checked out the medeival European wrestling manuals? they are really well drawn and depict all kinds of cool locks and throws, but done by guys in armour! How come we have lost our native styles in europe but in asia they managed to retain theirs? How many of our fencing skills retain the other weapons like a broadsword etc?

    http://www.thearma.org/manuals.htm

    Manuals of european martial arts (worth a look)
    Last edited by RenDaHai; 05-09-2010 at 09:13 AM.

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by RenDaHai View Post
    @Hardwork

    I actually went ot india to Kerala to train the Kalaripyattu. Unfortunately i couldn't find any really really good training. I tried both the north and southern styles. It is remarkebly similar to shaolin in terms of the basic skills and the stick combat. However i think this is a recent thing. There are records of indian monks doing exchanges in china so some of the technique could be exchanged either way. I certainly don't think Kalari has survived 1500 years unchanged and given birth to shaolin... no way.
    To be honest there are some who doubt the supposed Indian origins of kung fu as sold to us by some people. According to some, traditional Chinese martial arts existed long before Bodhidarma's journey to Shaolin.

    Either way, it is an interesting area for research. I personally believe that there are just too many TCMAs for them to have all originated from India and there does not seem to be any MA's in India that resemble Chinese kung fu and whose history predates that of the Traditional Chinese Boxing. Having said that, India is a big country and I am maintaining an open mind for possible future revelations.

  10. #25
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    "Weapons of the Pharaohs"

    I'm not in this week's episode but please support our show. We want to get renewed. I'll be back in the next two episodes.



    Man at Arms: Art of War does Ancient Egyptian Martial Arts
    Gene Ching
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    Author of Shaolin Trips
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  11. #26
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    Tune in, turn on & stay sharp!

    Gene Ching
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  12. #27
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    Tahteeb

    Here's a new one on me.

    OCTOBER 4, 2017 / 3:25 AM / 2 DAYS AGO
    From death to no-contact, ancient martial art revived in Egypt
    Reuters Staff
    2 MIN READ


    Zayed Abd El Naiem and Masry Abd El Fatha dance with their 'El Nabout' canes as they perform Tahteeb, an ancient form of martial arts and dance, in Sohag, Egypt, September 19, 2017. REUTERS/Mohamed Abd El Ghany

    Sohag, EGYPT (Reuters) - Turn the clock back just over half a century and a contest between two men in the ancient Egyptian martial art of tahteeb could see the loser injured, or even killed.

    Today however, striking is no longer permitted in this form of stick-fighting, references to which were discovered written inside ancient Egyptian tombs.

    In the city of Sohag which lies on the banks of Nile in central Egypt, one martial arts school is working to keep the ancient sport alive.

    “Long ago, this game was violent, and about 60 or 70 years ago, it was similar to fighting games, because that was the era known as one of manhood,” said Sabry Mohamed, who founded the International Centre for Tahteeb in 2012.

    Tahteeb requires a great deal of skill and control, and there are rules which govern how to hold the stick and the kinds of blows permitted, some of which were aimed to be deadly before the martial art became a no-contact discipline.

    Sabry has set his sights on organizing international championships for the martial art.

    “We can make use of tahteeb by forming an international body that can organize international championships and we’ll benefit from this a great deal, monetarily, and also by spreading our culture and heritage to other people.”

    Reporting by Abd Mohamed El-Ghany; Writing by Mark Hanrahan in London; Editing by Raissa Kasolowsky
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
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  13. #28
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    Hikuta

    Wondering about so called Egyptian martial art Hikuta.

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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R. Brown View Post
    Pharaonic times?

    They lasted a couple of thousand years!

    Don't forget the Assyrians, Sumerians, Hittites, Hebrews, Phoneticians, Minoans, Space Aliens (such as the Nordics, Reptilians and Annunaki).....etc!
    Take the sample size of Cleopatra's Greek ethnicity alluding to a significant presence enough to take a leadership role (in an Egyptian environment) to the later Mamluks of Albanians (and other Eastern Europeans) in Egyptian dynastic influence to forge and even change the landscape to produce what we have today. Just as Islamic hegegmony tended to destroy Nubian origin peoples and Tamazigh (North African origin people/language) so to do an about face when realization of stolen cultural value is reclaimed, the people are free to take hold of their dynasty.

    Mamluks were Christian European slaves in the employ of Muslim overlords (usually Turkish) who consolidated their position by becoming the shock troops for the Turks. When they say they could forge steel and prove themsleves in battle, they exercised their "high horse skills" until they became pariahs of the Muslim EMpire. They attempted to overthrow theiir Turkish benefacotrs but after time they left/ere kicked out/expelled to other areas of the Muslim Empire where they dynastic influence expanded to a point.

  15. #30
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    Tahtib

    Ancient Egyptian martial art enthusiasts eye Olympic status
    PUBLISHED : 29 APR 2021 AT 10:12

    WRITER: AFP

    A training session of Egypt's combative sport of 'tahtib' (stick-fighting), in the capital Cairo.
    CAIRO: Egypt's tradition of tahtib (stick fighting), popular at festivities and dating back at least 5,000 years, has become a modern martial art that enthusiasts hope will eventually make it to the Olympics.

    French-Egyptian Adel Paul Boulad, who for some 15 years has been the driving force behind modern tahtib, calls the push a "unifying project" and a "cultural revolution".

    The modern practice "is an updated sports version of a multi-millennial art", said the 69-year-old martial arts teacher.

    "It is a sporting practice that is codified, structured... and which spans the entire history of Egypt," he told AFP.

    In traditional tahtib, popular in Egypt's rural south, two men perform a dance while wielding bamboo-like rods, in a face-off somewhat resembling a fencing duel.

    Folk musicians with loud drums accompany the performance, which is popular at weddings and festivities, and pump up the crowd encircling the men, who don traditional galabeya robes.

    The UN cultural agency Unesco in 2016 listed the martial art as "intangible cultural heritage of humanity".

    - 'Get moving' -

    France-based Boulad, who was also behind tahtib's Unesco candidacy, formalised its intricate moves and broke it down to 12 forms -- the equivalent of katas in Japanese martial arts.

    The "secrets of combat" were inscribed in stone on the walls of temples and tombs of ancient Egypt's Old Kingdom (2,700 to 2,200 BC) until the arrival of the Greeks, who conquered the North African country around 300 BC.

    Boulad, who is also a business coach, wants to see tahtib included as a combat sport at the Olympics in the coming years.

    Wearing a red belt with three tips -- reminiscent of the style of ancient Egyptian warriors -- and black outfits, competitors wield a 1.3-metre rattan stick.

    Unlike traditional tahtib, women can participate in its modern version.

    With exhibitions, notably at the International Martial Arts Festival in Paris in 2016, modern tahtib already has attracted followers internationally, but is still trying to gain a foothold in Egypt.

    Boulad said he had given himself two to three years, with the help of private financing, to create "regional centres" across the world for spreading the sport further, including in Canada, Colombia and Hungary.

    "I say to Egyptians, get moving, otherwise tahtib will go to the Olympics without an Egyptian team representing it," he said.

    - 'Part of history' -

    In Cairo's upmarket eastern suburb of Rehab, a leisure park welcomes the first enthusiastic Egyptian instructors trained by Boulad, and their eager students.

    Nasser Refai, 44, a physical education teacher and one of the trainers, said the Egyptian fighting style inherited from the time of the pharaohs was a "treasure".

    "It's something we have to keep. Like any art form, if we don't practice, we lose it," added Refai, known affectionately as Captain Nasser to his students.

    He and his associates have slowly started attracting young local admirers of the sport via social media.

    "It's not just about fighting, it's about respecting and changing yourself," he told AFP, adding that it would be his "dream" to see tahtib recognised as an Olympic sport.

    Stick in hand and wearing a headscarf, Jasmine Anwar, 25, is keenly taking part in her first training session.

    "I will continue. I won't stop at just knowing how to hold the stick," the schoolteacher said.

    New recruit, Jouba Ayoub Mohammed, a 27-year-old graphic designer, expressed interest in promoting the sport to others of his generation.

    But "we must first let Egyptians know that tahtib is not a folk dance that is performed only at weddings and other cultural events," he said.

    "It's a part of ancient Egyptian history."
    I'm surprised that there's only one reference to tahtib on our forum here and it's not very relevant.
    Gene Ching
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