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Thread: Bung Bu Comparisons (Seven Star, CCK TJPM, TJPM)

  1. #16
    Mooyingmantis
    I understand what you are saying about you teach what works for you.
    I think the reason I like the CCK TC Bung bu is because it helps me understand more the movement, energy and so on. I suppose the CCK TC Bung Bu is making my 7* Bung Bu a little softer and allowing it to flow better. I also suppose its inevitable that if you have 2 or more variations of the same form that they will cross over and blend a little even if its not physically visible to everyone.

    Dave
    www.stmkfa.co.uk

  2. #17

    Thumbs down Seven Star Power

    I'm under the impression that seven star mantis has power generation as a core attribute and that it shows in how forms are played. Not sure this is soimething that should change. What do you think?

  3. #18
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    You may like these articles on Bung Bo

    These were written by Professor Randy Choy of Honolulu. He studied under Sifu David Cheng who was one of Chiu Chuk Kai's disciples in Vietnam. Here are the links and some excerpts:

    http://i-chuan.net/pages/Choy6.html
    Training in "Thrusting Foot Boxing" One of the most awesome hand forms of the Taiji praying Mantis Boxing system is the "Thrusting Foot Boxing" (Beng Bo), which consists of fifty-six postures. My students always want to know the secret of learning this very old boxing form. My answer is: you have to understand the twelve kinds of praying mantis fighting techniques which led to the creation of the form some 300 years ago from Mr. Wang Lang of the Northern Sung Dynasty.

    So let's go through "Thrusting Foot Boxing" and I will give you examples of where these twelve fighting techniques are.
    http://i-chuan.net/pages/Choy7.html
    In my martial arts classes, I instruct a number of qualified martial arts instructors. Their responses are beyond that of the average martial arts practitioner. It is because of their desire to learn more about Northern Praying Mantis boxing that I decided to share my knowledge to all of you in what to look for in analyzing a boxing form. Of course, you must show some caution: a little knowledge can be dangerous. So proceed slowly and remember, I'm not trying to sell you a martial arts form, but rather, I'm trying to direct you to the method and the way that I analyze a boxing form.

    If you are a practitioner of Northern Praying Mantis Boxing, then this article might be of some particular interest to you. The first step I would go through is to review my last article, analyzing your boxing form's horse stances and basic footwork. See if Mr. Wang Lang's twelve fighting techniques of "Thrusting Foot Boxing" (Beng Bo) does apply in some way to your boxing form. So let's go through a few "Rules of Chuan." This is what I do when I learn a boxing form. After learning all of the movements in this form, I would create a mental image of what I'm practicing. Based on the "Rules of Chuan," there must be an entire list of fist, palm, and claw strikes. If your instructor did not supply you with a list, then you've got to list it down yourself.
    "The true meaning of a given movement in a form is not its application, but rather the unlimited potential of the mind to provide muscular and skeletal support for that movement." Gregory Fong

  4. #19
    "However, I don't teach either form. I teach a blended form that demonstrates the high points of the 7*, CCK TJMH and TJMH versions, with a TJMH PM energy.
    Yeah, I know traditionalists (whatever they are) will roll their eyes and snicker, but I teach what works for me."


    It would be very interesting to see the combined version of Bung Bu that you teach. If you have some time I would really like to see a video demonstration.

    Regards,

    Steve

  5. #20
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    Dave,
    I agree that crossover would be a common result of form variation cross-training.

    Kwaichangcaine,
    Yeah, I would agree. Though I think this could be said for any Chinese martial art.

    Taichimantis,
    Excellent links! He sounds like a very knowledgeable instructor. Thanks for sharing those with us.
    Last edited by mooyingmantis; 06-15-2012 at 12:53 PM.

  6. #21
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    Further Comparison

    Here is a comparison of another short part of the form to chew on and discuss:

    WHF Northern Praying Mantis

    Horse Stance, Right Split Punch
    Twist Stance, Left Sticky Elbow
    Ascend Mountain, Left Turn Elbow

    CCK TJPM

    Horse Stance, Right Split Palm
    Left Ride Tiger Stance, Right Hook/Left Facing Sky Elbow
    Right Riding Tiger Stance, Left Head Elbow

    TJPM

    Ride Tiger Stance, Right Split Palm
    Right Jade Ring, Right Hook/Left Facing Sky Elbow
    Right Ascend Mountain, Left Stamping Elbow/Right File Punch (this is a trip over the left thigh)

    Have at it!
    Last edited by mooyingmantis; 11-30-2009 at 06:27 AM. Reason: i thunk a sumpin else

  7. #22
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    The NPM version, as I was taught, has all three strikes aimed at a single opponent.

    The CCK TJPM version seems to deal with two or three opponents and involves hopping.

    The TJPM version deals with two separate opponents. A chop to one direction, then an elbow attack followed by a tripping elbow technique to a second direction.

    As far as preference goes, I like the WHF version and application.
    Last edited by mooyingmantis; 11-30-2009 at 06:29 AM.

  8. #23
    Thank you, Richard.

    I look forward to your video of Bung Bu.

    Regards,

    Steve

  9. #24
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    gunglikchuan,
    I will try to get that done today. Send me a private message with your e-mail address to receive it.

  10. #25
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    Cui Shou Shan's quanpu for Beng Bu

    Though this thread was started three years ago, I thought what I am about to add is most relevant here.

    Xiaoyao (Will) has added the quanpu of the Cui Shoushan version (TJTLQ) of Beng Bu here:

    http://www.monkeystealspeach.co.uk/q...-tang-lang.php

    Great information Will!
    Richard A. Tolson
    https://www.patreon.com/mantismastersacademy

    There are two types of Chinese martial artists. Those who can fight and those who should be teaching dance or yoga!

    53 years of training, 43 years of teaching and still aiming for perfection!

    Recovering Forms Junkie! Even my twelve step program has four roads!

  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by mooyingmantis View Post
    Though this thread was started three years ago, I thought what I am about to add is most relevant here.

    Xiaoyao (Will) has added the quanpu of the Cui Shoushan version (TJTLQ) of Beng Bu here:

    http://www.monkeystealspeach.co.uk/q...-tang-lang.php

    Great information Will!
    Just give you all the original quanpu of the Cui Shoushan version (TJTLQ) of Beng Bu in his manuscript.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by alextse4 View Post
    Just give you all the original quanpu of the Cui Shoushan version (TJTLQ) of Beng Bu in his manuscript.
    Alex,

    Excellent! Thank you for that!

    Any thoughts on who you believe created this form?
    Last edited by mooyingmantis; 05-22-2012 at 01:50 PM.
    Richard A. Tolson
    https://www.patreon.com/mantismastersacademy

    There are two types of Chinese martial artists. Those who can fight and those who should be teaching dance or yoga!

    53 years of training, 43 years of teaching and still aiming for perfection!

    Recovering Forms Junkie! Even my twelve step program has four roads!

  13. #28
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    Alex, where did you get this quanpu? The opening movements are different to the way I was taught. After the bi zhou, your quan pu says "zuo you er yin yang" whereas it should be "chan long hu yan"

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by xiao yao View Post
    Alex, where did you get this quanpu? The opening movements are different to the way I was taught. After the bi zhou, your quan pu says "zuo you er yin yang" whereas it should be "chan long hu yan"
    The quanpu that Alex posted is very similar to the one that Xia Shaolong of Qingdao has on his Beng Bu DVD. 左 右 二 阴 阳 replaces 纏 龍 護 眼 打. In the same way that 闪 步 闪 肋 臂 is found at the beginning rather than 左 封 右 臂 肘.

    Originally, I thought maybe the differences were due to the fact that Master Xia is from Wang Yushan's lineage rather than Cui Shoushan's lineage. But if I am understanding Alex correctly, what he posted was a hand written copy by Master Cui Shoushan himself.

    The plot thickens!
    Last edited by mooyingmantis; 05-23-2012 at 01:06 AM.
    Richard A. Tolson
    https://www.patreon.com/mantismastersacademy

    There are two types of Chinese martial artists. Those who can fight and those who should be teaching dance or yoga!

    53 years of training, 43 years of teaching and still aiming for perfection!

    Recovering Forms Junkie! Even my twelve step program has four roads!

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by xiao yao View Post
    The opening movements are different to the way I was taught. After the bi zhou, your quan pu says "zuo you er yin yang" whereas it should be "chan long hu yan"
    It is the same.
    Zuo you er yin yang and chan long hu yan are the same move with a different perspective.

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