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Thread: Bung Bu Comparisons (Seven Star, CCK TJPM, TJPM)

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tainan Mantis View Post
    It is the same.
    Zuo you er yin yang and chan long hu yan are the same move with a different perspective.
    Agreed, but why the different wording? And which is the original?
    Richard A. Tolson
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  2. #32
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    Prior to Cui Shoushan the move was also called 'Praying Mantis Hands to left and right.' At least that is what Liang Xuexiang writes, but what they write and what they teach don't always match.
    When Zhou Zhendong teaches the moves he mentions somethings that are very useful such as, this move can be done this way or that way, it is called this or that.
    So, each generation may write something down one way and teach it orally another way.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tainan Mantis View Post
    Prior to Cui Shoushan the move was also called 'Praying Mantis Hands to left and right.' At least that is what Liang Xuexiang writes, but what they write and what they teach don't always match.
    When Zhou Zhendong teaches the moves he mentions somethings that are very useful such as, this move can be done this way or that way, it is called this or that.
    So, each generation may write something down one way and teach it orally another way.
    Interesting! Thank you for the feedback!
    Richard A. Tolson
    https://www.patreon.com/mantismastersacademy

    There are two types of Chinese martial artists. Those who can fight and those who should be teaching dance or yoga!

    53 years of training, 43 years of teaching and still aiming for perfection!

    Recovering Forms Junkie! Even my twelve step program has four roads!

  4. #34
    My shandong series 8 book is CKTaichi mantis bung bo,I have put all the manuscript of bung bo of all the old great grand masters in it.

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by mooyingmantis View Post
    Is the book available for purchase? If so, how?
    Please write to my e-mail:alexanderx@126.com

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by alextse4 View Post
    Please write to my e-mail:alexanderx@126.com
    Thanks! Just sent you an e-mail.
    Richard A. Tolson
    https://www.patreon.com/mantismastersacademy

    There are two types of Chinese martial artists. Those who can fight and those who should be teaching dance or yoga!

    53 years of training, 43 years of teaching and still aiming for perfection!

    Recovering Forms Junkie! Even my twelve step program has four roads!

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by mooyingmantis View Post
    Is the book available for purchase? If so, how?
    http://youtu.be/Bqt6fOy-8so

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by alextse4 View Post
    Please write to my e-mail:alexanderx@126.com
    I am still awaiting a response to my e-mail.
    Richard A. Tolson
    https://www.patreon.com/mantismastersacademy

    There are two types of Chinese martial artists. Those who can fight and those who should be teaching dance or yoga!

    53 years of training, 43 years of teaching and still aiming for perfection!

    Recovering Forms Junkie! Even my twelve step program has four roads!

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by mooyingmantis View Post
    I am still awaiting a response to my e-mail.
    Sorry your e-mail not received,please send once again.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by alextse4 View Post
    Sorry your e-mail not received,please send once again.
    Thank you for letting me know. I just sent another e-mail to the above address.
    Last edited by mooyingmantis; 05-30-2012 at 10:14 AM.
    Richard A. Tolson
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    There are two types of Chinese martial artists. Those who can fight and those who should be teaching dance or yoga!

    53 years of training, 43 years of teaching and still aiming for perfection!

    Recovering Forms Junkie! Even my twelve step program has four roads!

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by alextse4 View Post
    Sorry your e-mail not received,please send once again.
    Your e-mail as you typed it is not working.
    Richard A. Tolson
    https://www.patreon.com/mantismastersacademy

    There are two types of Chinese martial artists. Those who can fight and those who should be teaching dance or yoga!

    53 years of training, 43 years of teaching and still aiming for perfection!

    Recovering Forms Junkie! Even my twelve step program has four roads!

  12. #42
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    Ten Techniques Common to All Three Versions

    Here are ten techniques that are all found in the three major versions of Beng Bu:

    01. The initial dodging step and strike.
    02. The left thrusting palm strike followed by the step and right insert fist strike.
    03. The right coiling elbow strike followed by a right crushing strike.
    04. The left single or double palm strike to the rear followed by the arm lock.
    05. The left thrusting palm strike and right insert fist strike followed by the arm lock.
    06. The left sky facing elbow strike.
    07. The eye gouge with two fingers.
    08. The right hook hand strike or throw.
    09. The double rubbing palms.
    10. The final right waist chop.

    I listed the techniques in their order of appearance in the three variations of the form. Note that all three forms have the techniques in the same order.
    Last edited by mooyingmantis; 06-15-2012 at 01:09 PM.
    Richard A. Tolson
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    There are two types of Chinese martial artists. Those who can fight and those who should be teaching dance or yoga!

    53 years of training, 43 years of teaching and still aiming for perfection!

    Recovering Forms Junkie! Even my twelve step program has four roads!

  13. #43
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    My Conclusions concerning Beng Bu and its Variations

    It was about nine years ago that I began studying the various versions of Beng Bu. In time I came to believe that there were three main lines that each of the variations fell within.

    Now, after years of study and discussions with praying mantis practitioners around the world, I have come to the following conclusions:

    The three versions of Beng Bu practiced today can probably be attributed to Jiang Hualong (as passed down by Cui Shoushan and his many other students), Sun Yuanchang (as passed down by Ren Feng Rui) and Wang Yunsheng (as passed down by Fan Xudong).

    Each may have been initially inspired by the teaching of Liang Xuexiang, whose version is the earliest, verifiable, documented version of the form. Masters Jiang and Sun were disciples of Liang Xuexiang, so they would have received the teaching directly from Master Liang. While Wang Yunsheng was a friend of Jiang Hualong and may have adopted the form into his Qixing curriculum from the Meihua line of tanglangquan.

    The original foundation of "beng bu" may have existed as a form or simply a group of shou fa/mi shou taught by Liang Xuexiang.
    However, masters Jiang, Sun and Wang seem to be responsible for the direction and distinct flavor of each version as they expanded on the core techniques and/or the original structure of the ancient Beng Bu.
    Last edited by mooyingmantis; 06-15-2012 at 09:16 PM.
    Richard A. Tolson
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    There are two types of Chinese martial artists. Those who can fight and those who should be teaching dance or yoga!

    53 years of training, 43 years of teaching and still aiming for perfection!

    Recovering Forms Junkie! Even my twelve step program has four roads!

  14. #44
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    there is a copy of jiang hua long's quan pu floating around somewhere in yantai, but not sure whos got it or what's contained in it. zhou shifu told me he saw it before and it was very simple.

    if we could find that, it would give us a clue as to what changes were made since jiangs time

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by xiao yao View Post
    there is a copy of jiang hua long's quan pu floating around somewhere in yantai, but not sure whos got it or what's contained in it. zhou shifu told me he saw it before and it was very simple.

    if we could find that, it would give us a clue as to what changes were made since jiangs time
    Yes, that would be wonderful to see.

    Changes are inevitable I think. Even if everyone were using the exact same quanpu there could be many variables.

    For example, Cui Shoushan's quanpu gives the first move as 闪 步 闪 肋 臂 - shǎn b shǎn li b - Dodging Step, Dodge Ribs & Arm. Yet let's look at how three instructors interpret the same verse.

    Zhou Zhendong executes double sweeping palm blocks as he steps out with his left foot. He ends in a left Small Hill Climbing stance with his left hand held in front of the right side of his chest and extends his right hook hand forward to strike the opponent in the groin.

    Xia Shaolong executes a left hook hand grab to the enemy's wrist as he steps out with his left foot. He ends in a left Small Hill Climbing stance with his left hand held high in a raised hook hand and extends his right hook hand forward to strike the opponent in the groin.

    Sun Zhibin executes two sets of double sweeping palm blocks as he steps out with his right foot. He ends in a right Small Hill Climbing stance with his left hand held in front of his right shoulder and extends his right hook hand forward to strike the opponent in the groin. Sun emphasizes that the right foot, left palm, right shoulder and right hook hand strike should all be lined up precisely.

    Though each instructor uses the same verse for the movement, the footwork, blocking movement and final left hand positions vary.

    While these small differences may seem insignificant, multiply the changes found in one verse by the number of verses in an entire form and the forms can begin to look quite different.
    Last edited by mooyingmantis; 06-15-2012 at 08:46 PM.
    Richard A. Tolson
    https://www.patreon.com/mantismastersacademy

    There are two types of Chinese martial artists. Those who can fight and those who should be teaching dance or yoga!

    53 years of training, 43 years of teaching and still aiming for perfection!

    Recovering Forms Junkie! Even my twelve step program has four roads!

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