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Thread: Leitai Rules for Mantis Competition

  1. #1
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    Leitai Rules for Mantis Competition

    If we were to gather together for a leitai match that highlighted Mantis fighting, what type of rules would you like to see?
    A few years ago at the "mantis conference" this subject was brought up. Though from what I heard, nothing was resolved.
    How would YOU do it? What type of rules would you likes to see? How would we keep it from turning into the typical "throw out the style and everybody does karottie"?
    As I mentioned in another thread, I would be happy to host such an event. I have the place (5 acres in the country) and the platform. There would be no charge. It would not be a "let's see who is the toughest" scenario. It could be a learning experience in how to use what we have learned in our various mantis styles for fighting.
    Afterwards, we could have a picnic and/or a bonfire in the evening.

    Richard
    Last edited by mooyingmantis; 02-08-2010 at 03:46 PM.

  2. #2
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    Hu Laoshi summarized it quite well at the conference:

    "If you are going to fight; fight. Quit wasting time making up rules and talking about it. Just get in their and fight."

    Simple.
    JAB
    "Gravity doesn't lie, and the ground never misses."
    Jake Burroughs
    Three Harmonies Chinese Martial Arts Center
    Seattle, WA.
    www.threeharmonies.com
    three_harmonies@hotmail.com
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Three Harmonies View Post
    Hu Laoshi summarized it quite well at the conference:

    "If you are going to fight; fight. Quit wasting time making up rules and talking about it. Just get in their and fight."

    Simple.
    JAB
    Works for me! However, from what I heard peeps like to know what they are getting into ahead of time, especially with strangers.

    So, peeps can answer a few simple yes or no questions to start it off. Should the following be allowed?

    1. Groin kicks?

    2. Rear leg sweeps?

    3. Front leg sweeps?

    4. Strikes to the head?

    5. Strikes to the face?

    6. Strikes to the back?

    7. Throws?

    8. Chin Na locks?

    9. Would you be interested in participating if we held this Summer 09?

    10. What month would be best for you?

    Richard

  4. #4
    my suggestion would be to develop a weighted round win/points system similar to traditional Sanda or boxing where technique would be rewarded heavier than flailing away in case a decision needs to made.

    Full Contact
    Open finger MMA gloves would be mandatory.
    Definitely allow throws.
    Chin Na with control (maybe limit techniques to those that can be done safely)
    Groin Kicking... hmmm - well, we do train it...
    I'd allow striking to the back of the body, but not the head (too much risk of injury)

    ... I'd think about adding ground fighting because it is a reality of today's world. It is how people fight now. Maybe put a time limit on how long though so we don't end up with wrestling matches.

  5. #5

    forgot to ad

    Yes to sweeping both front and base leg (even allow for leg picks and grabs).

    I wouldn't allow straight kicks to the legs or knees.

  6. #6

    This is a good thread...

    You know - this type of event could save TCMA?
    Just have fighters state their style before the match and allow them to full contact fight with MMA/Grappling gloves. And, if it goes to a decision, give more weight to the guy that demonstrated better technique with their stated style.

  7. #7
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    What would help CMA would be them just training to fight. Standard rules one see's in MMA is fine. The problem with CMA is they are always trying to get an edge or an angle on some market, and it turns silly.
    Go fight in San Shou / MMA / Kickboxing / Grappling / ****...even point sparring. Rules are no big deal. For the most part all organizations have similar rule sets. Minor differences in knees, elbows and certain submissions, but other than that nothing makes a difference. Simple fact is if little Sammy or Suzy is so afraid of a certain move's acceptance in a full contact fight, then they are not ready to fight period.

    There is no reason CMA should be "different." Just put on gloves and fight.
    Simple enough, yet look at how few actually train it that way.

    JAB
    "Gravity doesn't lie, and the ground never misses."
    Jake Burroughs
    Three Harmonies Chinese Martial Arts Center
    Seattle, WA.
    www.threeharmonies.com
    three_harmonies@hotmail.com
    www.threeharmonies.blogspot.com

  8. #8
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    Good responses so far! I will repost the questions again so others do not miss them:

    Should the following be allowed?

    1. Groin kicks?

    2. Rear leg sweeps?

    3. Front leg sweeps?

    4. Strikes to the head?

    5. Strikes to the face?

    6. Strikes to the back?

    7. Throws?

    8. Chin Na locks?

    9. Would you be interested in participating if we held this Summer 09?

  9. #9
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    1. Groin kicks? Sure w/ cup
    2. Rear leg sweeps? yes
    3. Front leg sweeps? yes
    4. Strikes to the head? yes not/back
    5. Strikes to the face? yes
    6. Strikes to the back? yes not/head
    7. Throws? yes
    8. Chin Na locks? yes not/joint strikes
    9. Would you be interested in participating if we held this Summer 09? no
    - 三和拳

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  10. #10

    rules

    groin kicks?
    no, not even with a cup. my friend got kicked in the groin while he was throwing a kick. the cup shifted during his kick and when he got nailed in the groin, the cup crushed part of his testicle. He had to have 1/4 of his testicle removed.
    I think we should be proficient enough with other methods of attacks instead of having to use a groin kick.
    Any idiot can pull a trigger on a gun and any idiot can kick someone in the nuts.

  11. #11
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    the cup shifted during his kick and when he got nailed in the groin, the cup crushed part of his testicle. He had to have 1/4 of his testicle removed.
    1. Groin kicks? He11s NO!
    - 三和拳

    "Civilize the mind but make savage the body" Mao Tse Tsung

    "You're certainly intelligent enough to know how to be a good person without the lead weights of religious dogma." Serpent

    "There is no evidence that the zombie progeny of an incestuous space ghost cares what people do." MasterKiller

    "If there isn't a chance that you're going to lose in a fight, then you're not fighting tough enough competition." ShaolinTiger00

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  12. #12
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    what Jake said...i was at the conversation in Cleveland in 2005 and did not agree with much of anything that was said there.

    this whole conversation has been done to death in numerous variations over the years here.

    the reason some techniques are against the rules in amateur and pro mma fighting is because while they can be effective the risk of maiming in too great.

    if you want to get into a fight to test your too-deadly-mantis-skills then there are surely any number of bars and gang hang outs where I'm sure they would be too happy to oblige you.

    you either have a venue where there are rules designed to reasonably protect the fighters from permanent harm or there are no rules at all.

    personally, i'd rather reserve fighting with no rules to when it really matters and not for trying to prove some esoteric concept of my style.
    "George never did wake up. And, even all that talking didn't make death any easier...at least not for us. Maybe, in the end, all you can really hope for is that your last thought is a nice one...even if it's just about the taste of a nice cold beer."

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  13. #13
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    If other styles are allowed I have Wing Chun people who love full contact. I have some of our fights posted here.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/sifupr

    http://www.youtube.com/user/wckwoon

    In fact we have some fights schedule in NJ and NY for those in the area.
    Sifu Phillip Redmond
    Traditional Wing Chun Academy NYC/L.A.
    菲利普雷德蒙師傅
    傳統詠春拳學院紐約市

    WCKwoon
    wck
    sifupr

  14. #14
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    What up Oso? Long time brother.

    Everyone gets enamored with the ideas of "illegal techniques being allowed" or "what would REALLY happen on the STREET" type BS. Let me ask this... if such "illegal" techniques are representative of the "realities of the street" why are such techniques not as commonly seen in street fights and bar attacks? I am no bad ass fighter, but I have had a few over the past 3 decades, not to mention I witnessed / was involved with a bit while bouncing for over 6 years. Some observations:
    I have never seen the following:
    -groin shot (have seen the twins grabbed though)
    -purposeful eye poke / rake / gouge
    -Foot stomp
    -pressure point attack (that worked)
    -no touch KO

    So that basically leaves us with your basic strikes, kicks, locks, and throws. Certain techniques can certainly maim, but many "rules" are set forth by athletic committee's that differ state to state.

    It seems to me those who are the most reluctant to engage in battle, are often the first and loudest to contest "rules." Fear is a funny thing, and it is funnier in how it can control and manipulate us even subconsciously.

    Cheers
    JAB
    "Gravity doesn't lie, and the ground never misses."
    Jake Burroughs
    Three Harmonies Chinese Martial Arts Center
    Seattle, WA.
    www.threeharmonies.com
    three_harmonies@hotmail.com
    www.threeharmonies.blogspot.com

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    this whole conversation has been done to death in numerous variations over the years here.

    the reason some techniques are against the rules in amateur and pro mma fighting is because while they can be effective the risk of maiming in too great.

    if you want to get into a fight to test your too-deadly-mantis-skills then there are surely any number of bars and gang hang outs where I'm sure they would be too happy to oblige you.

    you either have a venue where there are rules designed to reasonably protect the fighters from permanent harm or there are no rules at all.

    personally, i'd rather reserve fighting with no rules to when it really matters and not for trying to prove some esoteric concept of my style.

    100% on the money.

    If you remove the prohibition on groin strikes, then you might as well remove it for eyes, throat and back of head. No rules is for real fighting, and not very conducive for developing skills in an 'exchange' situation. Better off bringing a knife.

    BT

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