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Thread: Leitai Rules for Mantis Competition

  1. #46
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    Now that MightyB has stated, with quotes from others, his opinion I must agree with him. MMA fights can hardly be called "battles". The last thing someone wants to do in a battle is roll around on the ground. Yes, I have done these type of competitions myself in the past, but I would certainly not try to defend myself with MMA strategies.
    Tournaments are for sport, PERIOD. As I mentioned, I have no desire to sponsor a tournament. It would be a waste of time for what I proposed a few posts above. Not even sure why this thread turned into an MMA/tournament type thread. Leitai videos I have seen from the distant past were nothing like the tournaments we see today.

    Thanks to those who have sent me a private message. We will try to get something set up for July.

    Richard

  2. #47
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    Mantis is no different / better then any other art, and there is nothing in it that others do not have either. It is like saying one will not study poetry because the language is totally different. It is the same language, just a different genera / style.

    If one cannot adapt their "style" to fit a certain rule criteria, then the practitioner is the one lacking not the tournament / style.

    Richard you started this whole conversation regarding Lei Tai Rules for Mantis, now you are going off on sport fighting and tournaments. Make up your mind bro. Obviously tournaments are sportive in nature. But they remain the closest thing to reality where one can still remain relatively safe and in a positive environment.

    Simple facts.... you want to teach no nonsense kill em all reality ****... learn to fire a weapon. Mantis has no edge over any other martial art. Not to mention it is the training mentality and approach, not the style.


    Brendan,
    I worked in high class places, so no eye gouges. Now that I think of it some attempts at nut shots but not many. I am no expert, and my experience is limited.

    JAB
    "Gravity doesn't lie, and the ground never misses."
    Jake Burroughs
    Three Harmonies Chinese Martial Arts Center
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    three_harmonies@hotmail.com
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  3. #48
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    And the leitai videos I have seen of the "past" are exactly like today! If anything they were sloppier back in the day!

    JAB
    "Gravity doesn't lie, and the ground never misses."
    Jake Burroughs
    Three Harmonies Chinese Martial Arts Center
    Seattle, WA.
    www.threeharmonies.com
    three_harmonies@hotmail.com
    www.threeharmonies.blogspot.com

  4. #49
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    Mantis is no different / better then any other art, and there is nothing in it that others do not have either. It is like saying one will not study poetry because the language is totally different. It is the same language, just a different genera / style.

    No disagreement here.

    If one cannot adapt their "style" to fit a certain rule criteria, then the practitioner is the one lacking not the tournament / style.


    Why would we want to? What would it profit us if we have no desire to do tournaments?

    Richard you started this whole conversation regarding Lei Tai Rules for Mantis, now you are going off on sport fighting and tournaments. Make up your mind bro.

    Actually I wasn't the one who derailed the thread.

    Obviously tournaments are sportive in nature. But they remain the closest thing to reality where one can still remain relatively safe and in a positive environment.


    Must disagree to that. I don't think there is much real to them compared to bare-knuckle fights I have been involved with in the past.

    Simple facts.... you want to teach no nonsense kill em all reality ****... learn to fire a weapon.

    LOL, one reason I teach the concealed carry course for the State of Ohio. But even with concealed carry your gun is not always available to you.

    Mantis has no edge over any other martial art.

    If you believe that, why are you studying it? To my knowledge you have studied under a few Mantis teachers. What is the point?

    Not to mention it is the training mentality and approach, not the style

    A common politically correct "truism". Unfortunately, truism are rarely true. I have seen some pretty ****ty styles in my day. Following their principles could get peeps killed. Teaching peeps to punch incorrectly can cause a student to injure himself regardless of his "training mentality and approach".

    None of this is meant to diss you bro. I have seen you move. You looked fine to me. Just not buying all you are selling. What is the point of discouraging what I am trying to do when I have clearly stated I have no desire for modern tournament fighting (at least 3 times in this thread).

    This is the mantis forum. So, I am trying to hook up with others who do mantis, so we can all improve together. Otherwise I would be cruising the Shaolin or Tai Chi Chuan forums for Leitai experience.

    And the leitai videos I have seen of the "past" are exactly like today! If anything they were sloppier back in the day!

    Then we must have seen different videos. The ones I have seen clearly show peeps using their fighting systems. Though I agree that some looked like they were pretty clueless in how to do that. Which is what I am trying to avoid.

    In closing, I am still available to those who want to private message me concerning the original topic of this thread. Thanks to those who have given positive input!

    Peace,
    Richard
    Last edited by mooyingmantis; 02-15-2010 at 04:38 PM.

  5. #50
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    I added my responses.
    Quote Originally Posted by mooyingmantis View Post
    Good responses so far! I will repost the questions again so others do not miss them:

    Should the following be allowed?

    1. Groin kicks? No

    2. Rear leg sweeps? Using a shuaio jow Standard- Both people cannot fall

    3. Front leg sweeps? See above

    4. Strikes to the head? Fist and palm, no gouging finger attacks or pressure point attacks to the head area

    5. Strikes to the face? See above, face shield head gear?

    6. Strikes to the back? No

    7. Throws? see above

    8. Chin Na locks? When combined with striking but, no joint striking chinna

    9. Would you be interested in participating if we held this Summer 09? 2010 maybe
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    Last edited by seung ga faat; 04-29-2011 at 01:36 AM.

  6. #51
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    Othal,

    Thanks for the input!

    Do you think strikes toward the eyes could be done safely if both practitioners wore safety glasses? That is how we do it in my school.

    Richard

  7. #52
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    No Eye Gouging, please!
    Now the kwoon is something different but, their are other ways I would like to go blind
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    Last edited by seung ga faat; 04-29-2011 at 01:36 AM.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by seung ga faat View Post
    No Eye Gouging, please!
    Now the kwoon is something different but, their are other ways I would like to go blind
    LOL, don't want to hear about that kind of "hand technique".

    Richard

  9. #54
    Hey, can you post some of your vids? [leitai] I always enjoy watching "old school" vids.
    Everybody has a plan, Til they get hit.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emeraldphoenix View Post
    Hey, can you post some of your vids? [leitai] I always enjoy watching "old school" vids.
    Are you asking me, or someone else? If me, I will try to post some in the future if my students don't mind. Not everyone likes to be on the Net.

    Richard

  11. #56
    It seems to me that a match would be fought, especially in this day and age, mostly out of respect and curiosity. At this point in time most of us aren't constantly getting attacked in the streets. Many practitioners of martial arts don't even want to get involved in real life combat. How ever, Leitai matches would be amazing in that they could give an even deeper feel of authenticity to combat. Mostly I think that since, generally, we respect each other as practitioners. (And assuming that the people who would be interested at fighting have spent a number of years in their styles. At least to the point where they could fall somewhat adequately.) Minimal rules would be necessary. I think eye shots should be avoided. But honestly, just have people sign a waver saying that you won't sue for crippling, If both people are good enough, they won't end up too injured to continue training. Hell people back then could do it. (Yes I realize people died as well as survived the matches.) But realistically, we can fix a great deal more in the way of injuries now too.

  12. #57
    On mantis having no advantage over any other style. *Quick side note* It seems to me that there has to be a careful balance between style, practitioner and teacher. It is so difficult to create a standard mathematical way to distinguish good kung fu, or good martial arts for that matter. If the practitioner is good, works hard, and trains efficiently. Odds are in any style they will be better than your average joe in the ring. If they train under an excelent teacher, who is also well trained, and highly experienced, then chock that practitioner up another notch. If they train in a watered down version of a style (which lets face it, many schools in America teach versions of martial arts that have lost some of their authenticity, favoring sport over practicality.) Then, odds are, in a realistic fight, the practitioner will be out matched when fighting another martial artist. If they train in a completely authentic style, with all the above considered, odds are they will be a more-than-decent fighter. But beyond that there is the consideration of personality, body type, and intellegence. All of those also have to be considered so that the practitioner chooses the BEST SUITED STYLE FOR THEM. I believe that if all of those points are reached, a fighter will be at his/her best. Thus making it incredibly difficult to say one style of kung fu is better than another.

  13. #58
    Richard, Well your students would be good. But i was referring to the old school vids that you said you have seen.
    Everybody has a plan, Til they get hit.

  14. #59
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    i might not be making sense but...

    ... i am torn between sides. I am fully aware of "beating the computer" as I call it. Where a person finds loopholes in the system to facilitate winning. But that being said, a skilled mantis boxer should be able to handle straights, hooks, round kicks, single/double legs etc. You SHOULD provide a better challenge than the computer. If an mma guy can't walk in to a match because he is too dangerous for our techniques, then what's the point? if you can't grab his gi because its too tight, knock him out! I see where it can go and I am for it, but we should sharpen our moves so they work on anyone, as opposed to dulling them so we can finally perform our moves. There is a huge disconnection of body parts in MOST cma, and taking out common elements, will only IMHO further the disconnection process. I agree with awarding more points to the guy that uses mantis in a mantis fight, but the guy who fought the best should win. any mantis specific sparring should be done in house only...

  15. #60
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    'a skilled mantis boxer should be able to handle straights, hooks, round kicks, single/double legs etc'

    Bingo.

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