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Thread: Mongolian Neo-Nazis

  1. #1
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    Mongolian Neo-Nazis

    Mongolian neo-Nazis: Anti-Chinese sentiment fuels rise of ultra-nationalism

    Alarm sounds over rise of extreme groups such as Tsagaan Khass who respect Hitler and reject foreign influence

    * Tania Branigan in Ulan Bator
    * guardian.co.uk, Monday 2 August 2010 16.13 BST

    Their right hands rise to black-clad chests and flash out in salute to their nation: "Sieg heil!" They praise Hitler's devotion to ethnic purity.

    But with their high cheekbones, dark eyes and brown skin, they are hardly the Third Reich's Aryan ideal. A new strain of Nazism has found an unlikely home: Mongolia.

    Once again, ultra-nationalists have emerged from an impoverished economy and turned upon outsiders. This time the main targets come from China, the rising power to the south.

    Groups such as Tsagaan Khass, or White Swastika, portray themselves as patriots standing up for ordinary citizens in the face of foreign crime, rampant inequality, political indifference and corruption.

    But critics say they scapegoat and attack the innocent. The US state department has warned travellers of increased assaults on inter-racial couples in recent years – including organised violence by ultra-nationalist groups.

    Dayar Mongol threatened to shave the heads of women who sleep with Chinese men. Three years ago, the leader of Blue Mongol was convicted of murdering his daughter's boyfriend, reportedly because the young man had studied in China.

    Though Tsagaan Khass leaders say they do not support violence, they are self-proclaimed Nazis. "Adolf Hitler was someone we respect. He taught us how to preserve national identity," said the 41-year-old co-founder, who calls himself Big Brother.

    "We don't agree with his extremism and starting the second world war. We are against all those killings, but we support his ideology. We support nationalism rather than fascism."

    It is, by any standards, an extraordinary choice. Under Hitler, Soviet prisoners of war who appeared Mongolian were singled out for execution. More recently, far-right groups in Europe have attacked Mongolian migrants.

    Not all ultra-nationalists use this iconography; and widespread ignorance about the Holocaust and other atrocities may help to explain why some do.

    Tsagaan Khass points out that the swastika is an ancient Asian symbol – which is true, but does not explain the group's use of Nazi colours, the Nazi eagle and the Nazi salute; or the large picture of the Führer on Big Brother's cigarette case.

    Nor does it seem greatly relevant, given their unabashed admiration for Hitler's racial beliefs.

    "We have to make sure that as a nation our blood is pure. That's about our independence," said 23-year-old Battur, pointing out that the population is under three million.

    "If we start mixing with Chinese, they will slowly swallow us up. Mongolian society is not very rich. Foreigners come with a lot of money and might start taking our women."

    Big Brother acknowledges he discovered such ideas through the nationalist groups that emerged in Russia after the Soviet Union's fall; Mongolia had been a satellite state. But the anti-Chinese tinge is distinct and increasingly popular.

    "While most people feel far-right discourse is too extreme, there seems to be a consensus that China is imperialistic, 'evil' and intent on taking Mongolia," said Franck Billé of Cambridge University, who is researching representations of Chinese people in Mongolia.

    Hip hop tracks such as Don't Go Too Far, You *****s by 4 Züg – chorus: "shoot them all, all, all" – have been widely played in bars and clubs. Urban myths abound; some believe Beijing has a secret policy of encouraging men to have sex with Mongolian women.

    Yet Tsagaan Khass claims it welcomes law-abiding visitors of all races, and Big Brother can certainly be hospitable.

    Enthusiastically shaking hands, he says: "Even though you are a British citizen, you are still Asian, and that makes you very cool."

    He says the younger members have taught him to be less extreme and the group appears to be reshaping itself – expelling "criminal elements" and insisting on a good education as a prerequisite for membership. One of the leaders is an interior designer.

    But critics fear ultra-nationalists are simply becoming more sophisticated and, quietly, more powerful. Tsagaan Khass say it "works closely" with other organisations and is now discussing a merger.

    "Some people are in complete denial … [but] we can no longer deny this is a problem," said Anaraa Nyamdorj, of Mongolia's Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Centre.

    The US state department has noted increased reports of xenophobic attacks since the spring. The UN country review cites a recent vicious assault on three young transgender women. When one of the victims publicly blamed an ultra-nationalist group – not Tsagaan Khass – death threats quickly followed.

    "They are getting more support from the public," added Enkhjargal Davaasuren, director of the National Centre Against Violence, who fears that ultra-nationalists are growing more confident and victims too scared to come forward. She pointed to a YouTube video posted last year, showing a man roughly shaving a woman's long hair. The victim's face is buried in her hands, but her hunched body reeks of fear.

    Others in Ulan Bator suggest the movement is waning and suspect the groups' menacing stance and claims of 3,000 members are bluster. Billé thinks there is "a lot of posturing".

    "We have heard of instances [of violence]. They are not necessarily all right or all wrong," said Javkhlan, a Tsagaan Khass leader. But the group is simply a "law enforcement" body, he maintained: "We do checks; we go to hotels and restaurants to make sure Mongolian girls don't do prostitution and foreigners don't break the laws.

    "We don't go through and beat the **** out of everyone. We check our information and make sure it's true."

    They rely on police and media pressure to reform such businesses, he added. And if that failed? "We try to avoid using power," he said. "That would be our very last resort."


    Hopefully we can have a civil discussion about this, but I fear it might be too charged and will get out of hand quickly.
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
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  2. #2
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    Ok, I'll start...with this. hahahahahahahahaha! Mongolian Nazis? that is hilarious!
    Do they know?

    I don't think they do know that they are practicing self hatred in the name of the dead sport of ultra nationalism.

    racial purity? Are they kidding? They're Mongols!
    There is no such thing as genetic purity, unless you want to talk about failed genetics and disease and such.

    as for race, there is only one race of humans.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  3. #3
    On a related note, in Taiwan there is a segment of the Taiwanese population who feels that Nazism was right about a number of things. And this segment respects what they see as some core "qualities" of the historical Nazi party. In a broader sense it flows from the respect that Taiwanese have towards Germany and German culture.

    On a fairly regular basis some Taiwanese will open a eating place or a bar with a Nazi theme and the Israeli embassy will lodge a complaint with the MOFA. It will be the "news of the day" for a few days. Usually the owner of the Nazi place will point out that:
    1. he has a right to display Nazi stuff
    2. The Nazis were able to raise Germany out of the ashes of WW1 and restore Germany's place in the world
    3. The Nazi party was big on strong families, strong nation and strong economy
    4. The Nazis may not have been liked, but in their day they were feared and (in some regards) "respected".

    And the Taiwanese interviewee will generally close the interview by saying "there is much Taiwan could learn from the Nazi movement.

    In Taiwan the Nazi movement is also approved of by some people because of the Nazi stance that a nation should have one "pure" race. Some Taiwanese fear the "dilution" of "Chinese blood" by marriages to South Asians, Vietnamese and......white Americans!

    NOTE: I am not saying "all" or "most" Taiwanese accept these ideas----all I am saying is that some do.

    take care,
    Brian

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    Ha. That's Taiwan for you.

    It reminds me of that old Star Trek episode, Patterns of Force.



    I'm really not that much of a trekkie. I had to look it up. Seriously. Nevertheless, that original series was way ahead of its time, especially in regards to topics like this.
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  5. #5
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    I'd love to get Hitler's take on this...
    "if its ok for shaolin wuseng to break his vow then its ok for me to sneak behind your house at 3 in the morning and bang your dog if buddha is in your heart then its ok"-Bawang

    "I get what you have said in the past, but we are not intuitive fighters. As instinctive fighters, we can chuck spears and claw and bite. We are not instinctively god at punching or kicking."-Drake

    "Princess? LMAO hammer you are such a pr^t"-Frost

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hebrew Hammer View Post
    I'd love to get Hitler's take on this...
    unfortunately and at the same time quite fortunately, Herr Hitler is gone from this world and shall not be a bane any further.

    also, you don't need to be some ultra nationalist to support families and morality.

    the nazis failed because they applied this only to one small segment of the population and the rest were considered not worthy.

    the idea of racial purity is backwards and indicative of deeply ignorant minds, so that is what can be said about the people who support that idea no matter their ethnicity.

    the nazis perpetuated a war machine in order to recreate the economy of german after they failed in ww1. It was ultimately a bad plan.

    The willful ignorance of the German people under Hitlers rule was astonishing as well.

    Nazis; truly worth throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

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    unfortunately and at the same time quite fortunately, Herr Hitler is gone from this world and shall not be a bane any further.
    ask HW8 I look at him as the reincarnate of said individual.
    Originally posted by Bawang
    i had an old taichi lady talk smack behind my back. i mean comon man, come on. if it was 200 years ago,, mebbe i wouldve smacked her and took all her monehs.
    Originally posted by Bawang
    i am manly and strong. do not insult me cracker.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonzbane76 View Post
    ask HW8 I look at him as the reincarnate of said individual.
    He does cling to that type of thinking.
    But, I ignore him lol because he's just a troll provocateur.

    I don't like to think of him masturbating as he reads my posts.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  9. #9
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    I don't like to think of him masturbating as he reads my posts.
    it's a scary world with scary people in it.
    Originally posted by Bawang
    i had an old taichi lady talk smack behind my back. i mean comon man, come on. if it was 200 years ago,, mebbe i wouldve smacked her and took all her monehs.
    Originally posted by Bawang
    i am manly and strong. do not insult me cracker.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonzbane76 View Post
    it's a scary world with scary people in it.
    indeed, there are many evil and scary nazi minded masturbators out there.

    makes me wanna buy a gun again...lol
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  11. #11
    "Racial awareness" and "racial preferences" (or put more crudely "racism") are very deeply rooted in the human mind. There has been quite a bit of serious research in this area over the past 20 years or so.

    Racial tensions and racial problems were part of Chinese history (e.g. the Yuan dynasty and the Qing being the two easy examples) and remain an important part of modern China.

    There is a Jingwu aspect to it too; one of the flags that were often flown at Jingwu events was the "5 Colors, 5 Races" flag that had been designed by Dr. Sun Yatsen. The five colors were the 5 races that made up Republican era China. Dr. Sun originally liked the design but then problems arose because the Han race was placed on top of the flag over the other races and that caused some friction.

    As an attorney I have worked and continue to work with the Southern Poverty Law Center. Much of their work focuses on race and racial hatred. One thing I have learned about the issue is; one needs to have a mature understanding of the biological, historical and cultural aspects of racism before one can deal with it both on a personal and national level.

    take care,
    Brian

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    Racism is nurtured in my opinion. It stems from natural fear though and gets nurtured from there.

    It's as if racism is used and exploited as a tool to be used alongside the science of fear mongering. Which is all the rage these days if you haven't noticed.

    But, if you are nurtured in an environment where racism itself is an alien concept then your outlook will be markedly different from someone's who was brought up in a "closed" community with no ethnic or cultural diversity. Doesn't matter what the background, it's the lack of exposure that creates the mindset.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  13. #13
    Los Angeles with all its ethnic diversity is a good example of how "exposure" to people of other races can end racial tensions and fighting. Hawaii is another good example of that.........and I of course can not forgot my adopted homeland of Taiwan, which surprisingly enough is becoming somewhat multi-ethnic, and the exposure of the various races to each other in Taiwan has caused a real "brotherhood of man" to develop there.....

    All joking aside, there is no simple solution to racial tension; "exposure" can increase racial tension in many cases.

    take care,
    Brian

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    Quote Originally Posted by brianlkennedy View Post
    Los Angeles with all its ethnic diversity is a good example of how "exposure" to people of other races can end racial tensions and fighting. Hawaii is another good example of that.........and I of course can not forgot my adopted homeland of Taiwan, which surprisingly enough is becoming somewhat multi-ethnic, and the exposure of the various races to each other in Taiwan has caused a real "brotherhood of man" to develop there.....

    All joking aside, there is no simple solution to racial tension; "exposure" can increase racial tension in many cases.

    take care,
    Brian
    Come to Toronto, Canada. lol. It claims to be the most ethnically diverse city on the planet.

    i've been around this sphere a little and I am somewhat inclined to agree. I don't think I've ever been to another city where you will see diversity pretty much everywhere you go.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jamieson View Post
    unfortunately and at the same time quite fortunately, Herr Hitler is gone from this world and shall not be a bane any further.

    also, you don't need to be some ultra nationalist to support families and morality.

    the nazis failed because they applied this only to one small segment of the population and the rest were considered not worthy.

    the idea of racial purity is backwards and indicative of deeply ignorant minds, so that is what can be said about the people who support that idea no matter their ethnicity.

    the nazis perpetuated a war machine in order to recreate the economy of german after they failed in ww1. It was ultimately a bad plan.

    The willful ignorance of the German people under Hitlers rule was astonishing as well.

    Nazis; truly worth throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
    Dave, are you getting intellectual on a kung fu forum? Racism is always the child of FEAR and DESPERATION and the IGNORANT...as I've gotten older, I have come to understand how many people use fear as their primary decision making tool. I mean men, women, in relationships, dating, politics, job selection, religion etc. Such an incredibly powerful force in many peoples lives. It just seems foreign to me that one would let to fear, make all your decisions for you.

    Its how Fox News does so well with many Americans, thats how we got two terms of GW Bush. Its how Hitler got elected and then seized more power. (Not that Bush and Hitler are the same by any means). Its the rationale for so many people buying and keeping guns by their bed because of fear of the home invasion that will most likely never happen. I have friends who the moment Obama was elected went down and bought even more guns (they owned several) because of the fear that he was going to take their guns! Even though he never ever ran on or proposed new gun laws. I couldn't help but laugh.

    Its part of the human condition I guess...who doesn't have some fear in their life? Its also what draws many to martial arts...that good ole self defense.
    "if its ok for shaolin wuseng to break his vow then its ok for me to sneak behind your house at 3 in the morning and bang your dog if buddha is in your heart then its ok"-Bawang

    "I get what you have said in the past, but we are not intuitive fighters. As instinctive fighters, we can chuck spears and claw and bite. We are not instinctively god at punching or kicking."-Drake

    "Princess? LMAO hammer you are such a pr^t"-Frost

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