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Thread: Sticking Hands

  1. #1
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    Sticking Hands

    Curious.

    What are you 'doing' when practicing the Chi Sau?

    Are you practicing Sticky Hands?
    Definition:a : adhesive b (1) : viscous, gluey (2) : coated with a sticky substance

    Or are you practicing Sticking Hands?
    Definition: to hit or propel (as a hockey puck) with a stick (ergo: to stick an animal to death)

    ..something to think about...
    “An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory.” – Friedrich Engels

  2. #2
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    I don't do any of those. I just feel and flow with the energy and if there is an imbalance in the flow I take advantage of it., and if there is none I create one.
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    There is no REAL secrets in Wing Chun, but because the forms are conceptual you have to know how to decipher the information..That's the secret..

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by couch View Post
    Curious.

    What are you 'doing' when practicing the Chi Sau?

    Are you practicing Sticky Hands?
    Definition:a : adhesive b (1) : viscous, gluey (2) : coated with a sticky substance

    Or are you practicing Sticking Hands?
    Definition: to hit or propel (as a hockey puck) with a stick (ergo: to stick an animal to death)

    ..something to think about...
    This underscores the problem with using English interpretations of Chinese terms. In this case, using "stick" for "chi". In English, "stick" has many meanings that the Chinese term "chi" doesn't. For example, "stick" in English can mean "to poke like with a pin."

    The Chinese term "chi" denotes two grains of rice that cling (hence another interpretation of chi sao is "arm clinging") together, expressing the notion of a certain degree of attachment (not too solid and not too fragile).

    What I do in chi sao is maintain a flexible attachment to my opponent's bridges while trying to control while striking my partner.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by t_niehoff View Post

    What I do in chi sao is maintain a flexible attachment to my opponent's bridges while trying to control while striking my partner.
    .........is not what to do in Chi Sau!!!!!

    Tell me Terence. How would you fight a person that is not stupid enough to give you their arms????

    GH

  5. #5
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    As a reference point..

    This is good ChiSao:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SM_KgCSMtMM


    Control while striking... All good things Chun control..
    Jim Hawkins
    M Y V T K F
    "You should have kicked him in the ball_..."—Sifu

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by YungChun View Post
    As a reference point..

    This is good ChiSao:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SM_KgCSMtMM


    Control while striking... All good things Chun control..
    All depends on what you think Chisau IS.

    To me, and for most in the Lee Shing family (I think!), we would call this Looksau

    Chisau may appear in there in split second moments, but it's basically Looksau. If this is what everyone sees as Chisau I think I can see why skilled guys like Wang kam Leung can take the advantage ALL the time.

    Chisau is a teaching tool. WKL is teaching nothing but how to be beaten in this clip
    Ti Fei
    詠春國術

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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneTiger108 View Post
    All depends on what you think Chisau IS.
    The question was posed by Kenton.. I know what he means.. He means the drill ChiSao...

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneTiger108 View Post
    To me, and for most in the Lee Shing family (I think!), we would call this Looksau
    Are your eyes rolling because you're dizzy? If so then sit down and breath.

    LukSao is the rolling.. The rolling is the basis for ChiSao, which is how we refer to the main two handed sticking drill. The term ChiSao could be used to refer to any contact (sticking) drill but is most commonly used to refer to the two handed drill.. This should not be news to anyone..

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneTiger108 View Post
    Chisau may appear in there in split second moments, but it's basically Looksau.
    As I said LukSao is the rolling, the platform for two handed ChiSao... What you see and think is still a mystery..

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneTiger108 View Post
    If this is what everyone sees as Chisau I think I can see why skilled guys like Wang kam Leung can take the advantage ALL the time.
    ChiSao is what the clip was called.. Moreover, it's the same two handed drill most any branch of the Yip family does and calls by the same term.. is every component of the drill seen? No. But it's still ChiSao.

    Wan can "take advantage" in the drill as is seen because he has been doing it longer than his students...shocking isn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by LoneTiger108 View Post
    Chisau is a teaching tool. WKL is teaching nothing but how to be beaten in this clip
    ChiSao is a learning and teaching platform..

    Ah, he's teaching how to be beaten.. Uh huh.. Care to elaborate?
    Last edited by YungChun; 11-19-2010 at 04:34 AM.
    Jim Hawkins
    M Y V T K F
    "You should have kicked him in the ball_..."—Sifu

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham H View Post
    .........is not what to do in Chi Sau!!!!!

    Tell me Terence. How would you fight a person that is not stupid enough to give you their arms????

    GH
    You don't need an attached drill to learn to do unattached punching.

    The point of chi sao is to learn to control while striking. To do that, I use MY bridges, to strike, to pull, push, wedge, jam, lift, sink, etc.

    It's not that I want them to "give me their arms", I'd much rather they didn't. The kuit tells us, Chum Sen, Mo Chum Sao - Seek the body, not the hands. However, most often people won't give you direct access to their body, and try to keep their hands/arms are in the way (both offensively and defensively). I take whatever my opponent gives me, whether his arms or his body or whatever and use that contact as a handle to control him.

  9. #9
    "You don't need an attached drill to learn to do unattached punching. ' terence

    do you stick to the dummy arms too ?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by k gledhill View Post
    "You don't need an attached drill to learn to do unattached punching. ' terence

    do you stick to the dummy arms too ?
    Ironic..

    I'm guessing the answer would be no if he doesn't follow the standard set...which does.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjqL9MdLj0k
    Last edited by YungChun; 11-19-2010 at 05:30 AM.
    Jim Hawkins
    M Y V T K F
    "You should have kicked him in the ball_..."—Sifu

  11. #11
    The best bit is where the big guy shows WKL which hand he is going to punch with. Impressive stuff!!!!!

    GH

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham H View Post
    The best bit is where the big guy shows WKL which hand he is going to punch with. Impressive stuff!!!!!

    GH
    It wouldn't matter since it's not a fight.. It's a drill where WKL is showing the method.
    Jim Hawkins
    M Y V T K F
    "You should have kicked him in the ball_..."—Sifu

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham H View Post
    .........is not what to do in Chi Sau!!!!!

    Tell me Terence. How would you fight a person that is not stupid enough to give you their arms????

    GH
    I don't do wing chun any more but to me attached fighting is a lot more than attaching to someone's arms. There's head and neck control, underhooks, overhooks, pushing, jamming and even grabbing clothes.

    Why limit yourself to just the arms?
    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by YungChun View Post
    It wouldn't matter since it's not a fight.. It's a drill where WKL is showing the method.
    You were mocking that Uechi ryu clip a while back because you were saying the drill wasnt trained as it would be in a fight. then you turn around and say it doesnt matter when its something you like because its just showing something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by goju View Post
    You were mocking that Uechi ryu clip a while back because you were saying the drill wasnt trained as it would be in a fight. then you turn around and say it doesnt matter when its something you like because its just showing something.
    You don't understand....and likely never will..

    The issue here was a telegraphed attack.. The drill ChiSao actions WKL is teaching/showing has nothing to do with reading an attack...it's not a fight--what he's doing has to do with control...

    The Uechi stuff is simply wrong no matter how you slice it and not the topic here--moreover WKL's stuff is light years ahead of it IMO..
    Last edited by YungChun; 11-19-2010 at 06:14 AM.
    Jim Hawkins
    M Y V T K F
    "You should have kicked him in the ball_..."—Sifu

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