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Thread: Do Most Fights Go to the Ground? (Research conducted)

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by faxiapreta View Post
    use bad "head down, bum rush" style in takedowns.
    When your opponent shoots in, if his head is

    - down, you can help his head to go down even lower.
    - up, you can help his head to go up even higher.

    When your opponent's head is up but his body is leaning forward, there is an untrual angle between his body and his head. You can take advantage on that angle and make that angle larger. The "head down" is not any worse than "head up". It's whether your opponent allows you to have free arms or not.
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 05-26-2011 at 09:47 AM.

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas View Post
    i remember when this study came out, what always stuck in my mind was that youtube is not a fully dependable source for real life. they dont leave vids up there where people are shot, stabbed, broken or killed.
    So from my perspective realistically in situations where people are shot, stabbed, broken, or killed, 100% of those situations will involve one person going to the ground. Some also will involve both going to the ground.

    Probably excluding them from the study is a good thing, as it might skew the results statistically.

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    If your opponent's head is

    - down, you help him to go down even lower.
    - up, you help him to go up even higher.

    The "head down" is not any worse than "head up". It's whether your allow your opponent to have free arms or not.
    Head up is much better. That's why grapplers are taught to do this and strive to be able to do takedowns with head up (although some never progress that far, since head down is more instinctive). There are many reasons why head up is better, most having to do with offensive efficiency and effectiveness, and some for defensive reasons.

  4. #34
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    When you use 'double legs", you want to use the top of your head to hit on your opponent's belly. Your head will be down at that moment.

    When you shoot in with head up, if your opponent pushes your fore-head back, your body forward momentum and your opponent's backward fore-head pushing will put a lot of pressure on your neck. No matter how strong you may be, your neck is always a weak spot in your body.

    If you can manage to make your opponent's arms "not to be free", head up or head down won't make any difference. This is why TCMA also emphasis on "knock on the door first before enter".
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 05-26-2011 at 10:00 AM.

  5. #35
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    I also think the numbers are a bit skewed because although someone may end up on the ground, does not mean that the fight is taken there. For instance, if a fight ends in a ko, obviously the fighter who was ko'ed ends up on the ground. Most instances a ko means the end of the fight. (MOST not all, of course there are exceptions and Im talking mostly in terms of a street fight)

    Did the find end up on the ground? Yes. Does that make it a ground fight? No.

    I can't count how many times someone was knocked down in a fight and was got back up before the other person was able to capitalize. Did the fight go to the ground in those instances, yes. Was it a ground fight? No.
    "Neither is "safe", if you want to be safe stay home and play with yourself" -lkfmdc

  6. #36
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    Y'all do realize we are just talking about the shot here. There's a lot more then just shooting, there are whole books written on setups for shots, arm-drags, headlocks, bear hugs, clinching, head control, touch and goes, 2 on 1s, Russian 2 on 1s, underhooks, overhooks and leg diving. And then on top of that there are a whole mess of throws and suplexes that can be done. And this can be further divided into grabbing or not grabbing clothing.

    So its not that simple.

    people go down from losing balance, being hit in the head too. But a grappler would have a better response , sprawls etc...I teach students sprawling basic open palm strikes to lowered heads of guys coming in low. Palms have a stunning effect rather than a ko , but you can follow up after with kicks etc...Ive used this fighting.
    Statements like this are just wrong on so many levels when discussing how to handle a grappler.

    Its sad to say but the dumb outweighs the funny.
    Last edited by m1k3; 05-26-2011 at 10:00 AM.
    Mike

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    When you use 'double legs", you want to use the top of your head to hit on your opponent's belly. Your head will be down at that moment.

    When you shoot in with head up, if your opponent pushes your fore-head back, your body forward momentum and your opponent's backward fore-head pushing will put a lot of pressure on your neck. No matter how strong you may be, your neck is always a weak spot in your body.

    If you can manage to make your opponent's arms "not to be free", head up or head down won't make any difference.
    you do know that from day i grapplers are taught to
    a) set the shot up
    b) level change and
    c) bull the neck all of which make your points mute

    I know you do chinese grappling but sometimes i wonder about your expereince with western grappling

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    When you use 'double legs", you want to use the top of your head to hit on your opponent's belly. Your head will be down at that moment.
    No, you absolutely don't want your head on the opponent's abdominal area in a double leg takedown. The head should be up and on the outside.

    The only time the head is in the abdominal area is with a single leg and, even then, the head should be up.

    When you shoot in with head up, if your opponent pushes your fore-head back, your body forward momentum and your opponent's backward fore-head pushing will put a lot of pressure on your neck. No matter how strong you may be, your neck is always a weak spot in your body.
    That's why you are not supposed to shoot without a setup first. Getting a takedown is at least 50% setup.

    If you shoot in with the head down, it gets pushed down which is probably worse because you end up in a worse position.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    you do know that from day i grapplers are taught to
    a) set the shot up
    b) level change and
    c) bull the neck all of which make your points mute

    I know you do chinese grappling but sometimes i wonder about your expereince with western grappling
    I have dealed with many western wrestlers in the past (most of them are from the Ohio State University wrestling team). Since both "single leg" and "double legs" exist in both Chinese wrestling, and western wrestling, the set up may be different, but the principle and risk factor are the same.

    Would you mind to share your experience on "how to set up a single leg by using the western wrestling"? It may be fun to compare the difference.
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 05-26-2011 at 10:14 AM.

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    you do know that from day i grapplers are taught to
    a) set the shot up
    b) level change and
    c) bull the neck all of which make your points mute

    I know you do chinese grappling but sometimes i wonder about your expereince with western grappling
    Grappling is grappling. Chinese grapplers (who actually grapple) do the same techs as the western grapplers. All one has to do is watch the Chinese Olympic wrestling team.

  11. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    I have dealed with many western wrestlers in the past. Would you mind to share your experience on "how to set up a single leg"?
    Apparently you haven't if you don't know the basic setups for singles.

  12. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    I have dealed with many western wrestlers in the past (most of them are from the Ohio State University wrestling team). Since both "single leg" and "double legs" exist in both Chinese wrestling, and western wrestling, the set up may be different, but the principle and risk factor are the same.

    Would you mind to share your experience on "how to set up a single leg by using the western wrestling"? It may be fun to compare the difference.
    There is no difference. That's why the Chinese Olympic wrestlers use the same setups as everyone else.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by faxiapreta View Post
    No, you absolutely don't want your head on the opponent's abdominal area in a double leg takedown. The head should be up and on the outside.
    Not sure about the western wrestling method, but this is the Chinese wrestling method. You can notice the "setup" there by deflecting your opponent's both arms.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvPXIfh9wzE

    Quote Originally Posted by faxiapreta View Post
    That's why you are not supposed to shoot without a setup first. Getting a takedown is at least 50% setup.

    If you shoot in with the head down, it gets pushed down which is probably worse because you end up in a worse position.
    Agree on this!

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by faxiapreta View Post
    Apparently you haven't if you don't know the basic setups for singles.
    How about if you describe the "western wrestling setup for single" and I then describe the "Chinese wrestling set up for single" so we can exchange opinion on this? It's not fare for me to explain in detail and put up clips. Sharing should be a 2 ways street.

  15. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    Not sure about the western wrestling method, but this is the Chinese wrestling method. You can notice the "setup" there by deflecting your opponent's both arms.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvPXIfh9wzE
    That's not a "Chinese" method. That is a type of spear, which can sometimes be used. You won't see it often because it is low percentange.

    If you want to see "Chinese" methods, watch the Chinese Olympic wrestlers. And guess what? They will look like everyone else.

    Any new variation or style that works is quickly taken up by everyone (i.e. Russion 2-on-1). There is no "Chinese" style.

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