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Thread: Not everyone is a cage fighter.... so what?

  1. #1
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    Not everyone is a cage fighter.... so what?

    I keep hearing that not everyone is a cage fighter, so such and such technique is not important. That's like saying not all of my friends are college graduates, so I don't need to know how to read. You prepare yourself for the highest level, not the lowest.

    A well rounded martial artists should be comfortable at all ranges of striking. Controlling and breaking grips. Take downs. Escapes. Changing levels..... this is basic, core technique.

    You can have the best striking in the world. If you don't understand under hooks/over hooks.... the potentials and dangers of each, you are taking a serious risk.

    If you're a grappler but haven't learned to appreciate the uppercut, you can get sloppy on your entering.

    There is so much to train. And each sub segment are entire arts unto themselves.... that's why it's Mixed Martial Art.... no style answers everything. In your quest for self defense, it's natural to go out and seek alternative solutions. One doesn't just study math or science in school. You need the whole package. And it's a lifetime pursuit.

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    Most experts are specialists with limited knowledge outside their specialty. That limited knowledge is important, but never comes close to their knowledge of their specialty.

    Not disagreeing, just bringing up a relevant point.
    I would use a blue eyed, blond haired Chechnyan to ruin you- Drake on weapons

  3. #3
    If you can block a boxer's hook, you can certainly block a drunk bum's swing

    If you can stuff a wrestler's shoot, you can definitely deal with the "street tackle"

    PLUS, assuming everyone you will meet on the street has no training is a bad idea. This is 2011, there are TONS of people with at least some training out there
    Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253

    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    well, like LKFMDC - he's a genuine Kung Fu Hero™
    Quote Originally Posted by Taixuquan99 View Post
    As much as I get annoyed when it gets derailed by the array of strange angry people that hover around him like moths, his good posts are some of my favorites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    I think he goes into a cave to meditate and recharge his chi...and bite the heads off of bats, of course....

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    Quote Originally Posted by lkfmdc View Post
    If you can block a boxer's hook, you can certainly block a drunk bum's swing

    If you can stuff a wrestler's shoot, you can definitely deal with the "street tackle"

    PLUS, assuming everyone you will meet on the street has no training is a bad idea. This is 2011, there are TONS of people with at least some training out there
    Well...there is something to be said about the "unorthodox" though.
    But on a whole, if you can handle someone that is trained to fight, then someone that isn't should be easier.
    Of course there are always exceptions to any rule and one should never underestimate anyone.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by lkfmdc View Post
    PLUS, assuming everyone you will meet on the street has no training is a bad idea. This is 2011, there are TONS of people with at least some training out there
    good point. after all, it is likely that someone willing to get into a fight with a stranger has, like, at least a small interest in fighting.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    Well...there is something to be said about the "unorthodox" though.
    sanshou in the 90's was full of unorthodox people (crazies) - a major benefit of competition was learning how to deal with someone whose entire approach was "nuts"
    Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253

    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    well, like LKFMDC - he's a genuine Kung Fu Hero™
    Quote Originally Posted by Taixuquan99 View Post
    As much as I get annoyed when it gets derailed by the array of strange angry people that hover around him like moths, his good posts are some of my favorites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    I think he goes into a cave to meditate and recharge his chi...and bite the heads off of bats, of course....

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Pina View Post
    I keep hearing that not everyone is a cage fighter, so such and such technique is not important.
    really? you keep hearing this?
    I think I wrote that in context to one technique that was asked about and to be honest, not everyone is a cage fighter so you don't have to think about all these warriors all over the streets being all bad azz cause that ain't reality.

    reality is that most people are lazy, a little chubby, not motivated to fight in anyway and easy to control with fear.

    Go ahead and disagree and I shall deconstruct that for you and show you that your disagreement with the assessment is erroneous at best.





    That's like saying not all of my friends are college graduates, so I don't need to know how to read.
    No it's not like saying that at all, it's just a matter of fact statement. If you don't believe it, go out and round up a group of trained people and see how long it takes as compared to pick any donut joint and observe the doughiness of people.

    You prepare yourself for the highest level, not the lowest.
    That makes sense for those who are in competitive environments. For the street, glock trumps training every time.

    A well rounded martial artists should be comfortable at all ranges of striking. Controlling and breaking grips. Take downs. Escapes. Changing levels..... this is basic, core technique.
    It's also fairly antiquated in thinking. A well rounded martial artist these days knows how to use blunt weapons, bladed weapons, double weapons, projectile weapons and the last thing he worries about is H2H contact because that is the greatest chance of failure due to unknown variables. But a weapon changes everything and weapons are the way quite frankly on the street. Unless it's a kid fight in high school, in which case, who gives a flying f*ck about tussles lol.
    You can have the best striking in the world. If you don't understand under hooks/over hooks.... the potentials and dangers of each, you are taking a serious risk.
    Your head is in a ring competition, like Ross's. This focus will get you cut. You know it's true yourself, you said as much a day ago. Tussle with someone and that might get you shot these days. That's a hard truth that anyone into martial arts needs to understand fully in this day and age. Our world is brewing into a lovely little hell after all. You don't think people will square off fairly against you do you? I never expect that.

    If you're a grappler but haven't learned to appreciate the uppercut, you can get sloppy on your entering.
    Head in the ring.

    There is so much to train. And each sub segment are entire arts unto themselves.... that's why it's Mixed Martial Art.... no style answers everything. In your quest for self defense, it's natural to go out and seek alternative solutions. One doesn't just study math or science in school. You need the whole package. And it's a lifetime pursuit.
    Or, buy a gun, get a permit and know how to use it.

    Kung fu or H2H training is for fun and health. Tussles and fun. Fights can get ugly. If you beat a guy too bad, that might come back on you in spades.

    In the ring? I'm not into sports, I just like training for the sake of it these days. Health, fitness, posterity, personal interest.

    real threats are dealt with in a much stronger fashion.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  8. #8
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    David makes a point.
    I carry a folder, an Emerson CQB or a Spyderco.
    Didn't until I started boucing years ago and had one too many knives pulled on me ( and shot at too, but that is another story).
    It is an option:
    When faced with another weapon or more than one attacker.
    Have I ever had to use it?
    Yes.
    Do I use it more for utility?
    Thank God YES !
    But here is the thing, every guy I know, carries one too.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  9. #9
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    The last time I faced a potential situation was a meth head trying to steal my gear from a job site, some years back. The technique I used was holding a carpenter's hammer in one hand and a huge pry bar in the other and chasing him off before he had time to think about grabbing something of his own.

    The only reason I was so forward about it is because he had my Hummel drum sander he was carrying at the time. Had he been stealing little stuff, and had the capacity to draw a weapon, I probably would have been more cautious.

    Unarmed self defense, for men, occurs most often because of their own stupidity.
    I would use a blue eyed, blond haired Chechnyan to ruin you- Drake on weapons

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC Elbows View Post
    Most experts are specialists with limited knowledge outside their specialty. That limited knowledge is important, but never comes close to their knowledge of their specialty.
    I agree with you. And when you are an expert at say throws, you instinctively have figured out how to deal with striking to set up those throws. When you are better at your skill you cancel out the skills of the lesser player.

    With that said, there's this Judo black belt who loves to show up to our BJJ class after we all warmed up, drilled ourselves sweat ridden, to throw us around for the free play segment because he's friends with my coach.... he NEVER shows up for boxing or MMA class. Never.... he only wants to play throwing and go home.

    In Judo circles he's highly regarding on the island. Competed at the international level when he was younger. Walks around a little ****y.....then there's the fighter circle. When both groups are together he keeps his mouth shut. His black belt and 25 years of training get intimidated by a 20 year old kid with 5 years of MMA training.

    Sometimes I don't need to know how to build an entire bike. I just need to know sticking a simple stick between your spokes shuts everything down.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Pina View Post
    I agree with you. And when you are an expert at say throws, you instinctively have figured out how to deal with striking to set up those throws. When you are better at your skill you cancel out the skills of the lesser player.

    With that said, there's this Judo black belt who loves to show up to our BJJ class after we all warmed up, drilled ourselves sweat ridden, to throw us around for the free play segment because he's friends with my coach.... he NEVER shows up for boxing or MMA class. Never.... he only wants to play throwing and go home.

    In Judo circles he's highly regarding on the island. Competed at the international level when he was younger. Walks around a little ****y.....then there's the fighter circle. When both groups are together he keeps his mouth shut. His black belt and 25 years of training get intimidated by a 20 year old kid with 5 years of MMA training.

    Sometimes I don't need to know how to build an entire bike. I just need to know sticking a simple stick between your spokes shuts everything down.
    That's not a limit imposed by his expertise, but by not getting that additional knowledge that, though not expert level, makes his expertise even more relevant. Were he consistent, there's no reason to believe that the only reason he wouldn't go too often with the young bucks is because young bucks have certain attributes, and little caution.
    I would use a blue eyed, blond haired Chechnyan to ruin you- Drake on weapons

  12. #12
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    Every situation doesn't require an Iron Palm death strike to the cranium. Also, to reach your knife or gun, you may need to create space. Or first control another's arm/weapon.... again, this goes back to grips.

    Do you know what grips you like for individual situations? Do you train no gi for when there is nothing to grab?

    Do you train control of your weapon and spacing?

    What if you go down while wrestling for control of a weapon? What if your firearm fails? What if your blade gets stuck but didn't finish the job?

    I certainly don't feel this is the best venue to discuss the realistic use of weapons, but with that said the approach is the same: I didn't go to the local wing chun studio to learn about my hand guns and shotgun. I took a local course taught by an FBI agent. I train with surf buddies in the military when I can. Get tips. Advice.

    I don't ask those same people about BJJ. I have black belt experts for that area. I go to pro boxers for boxing instruction.... this way everything I learn is from people who are true experts with real life experience.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Pina View Post
    Every situation doesn't require an Iron Palm death strike to the cranium. Also, to reach your knife or gun, you may need to create space. Or first control another's arm/weapon.... again, this goes back to grips.

    Do you know what grips you like for individual situations? Do you train no gi for when there is nothing to grab?

    Do you train control of your weapon and spacing?

    What if you go down while wrestling for control of a weapon? What if your firearm fails? What if your blade gets stuck but didn't finish the job?

    I certainly don't feel this is the best venue to discuss the realistic use of weapons, but with that said the approach is the same: I didn't go to the local wing chun studio to learn about my hand guns and shotgun. I took a local course taught by an FBI agent. I train with surf buddies in the military when I can. Get tips. Advice.

    I don't ask those same people about BJJ. I have black belt experts for that area. I go to pro boxers for boxing instruction.... this way everything I learn is from people who are true experts with real life experience.
    Good stuff ray
    You do bring up a few valid points, especially going to the experts for advice and testing.
    Not enough people do that.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  14. #14
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    This brings up a point on why I cross train(ed):
    When I wanted to develop and test a skill to it's max, I always tried to get soem training and competition in that specific skill, so...

    To test my punches I did boxing
    Throws I did Judo
    ground work I did BJJ ( and Judo of course)
    Clinch and takedowns I did wrestling
    Kicks I did TKD
    Bare knuckle I did kyokushin
    KB I did MT
    Sticks and knives I did Kali ( Insanto/Lacoste and Pekiti-Tirsia and even some DBMA).
    Gun work, well, 4 years in the Army handled that.
    Heck I even tried some Sambo !
    Good stuff.

    The point was, if you want to develop AND test a specific skillset, go to who are the experts in that skillset.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC Elbows View Post
    That's not a limit imposed by his expertise, but by not getting that additional knowledge that, though not expert level, makes his expertise even more relevant. Were he consistent, there's no reason to believe that the only reason he wouldn't go too often with the young bucks is because young bucks have certain attributes, and little caution.
    I don't really understand everything you're saying here. But to reiterate: he takes pride in throwing lesser belts but NEVER free plays when striking is involved. Not kill each other striking, just run-of-the-mill training sparring.... knowing this guy, I believe his ego won't allow him to "get beat up" in front of everyone. Though I admit I'm projecting.

    This is just one example of a situation I encounter pretty often. Sometimes experts become so expert they loose perspective..... being a taiji push hand champ, a grecco roman champ doesn't necessarily equate skill in full unarmed combat. One may have skill in certain attributes -- leading, guiding, take downs, pins, etc, but its what's lacking that keeps them on the sidelines when men strap up and compare.

    I read so many threads hear asking for "video proof." If 5 percent of the board members here trained "live" their would be too much footage to go through on a weekly basis.

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