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Thread: Not everyone is a cage fighter.... so what?

  1. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    lets see the 2 on 1 allows control of the opponent so he cant get any real power into his shots, whilt i am looking directly at my opponent and can hit with knees and headbutts with real power....but again if you dont like it can you post clips you do like, you have been doing it for 20 years there must be some clips ut there of the way you go about it?
    I think that you are making it an all or nothing kind of thing. As I said, all that stuff is basically fine. I just think that you need to add the disarms to it and I would tweak the control just a little. My opinion is that once you engage someone like that, if you don't run immediately, your goal is to get the knife away from them. Just kneeing to the thigh, head butts, and so forth, aren't going to be enough, and don't guarantee anything. Those things are a good start. IMO, you have to be considering taking the knife at some point because that resolves the conflict when running isn't an option. Disarming a knife is like anything in martial arts you need to know more than one so that you have the right one for the situation. Now if you don't know some of these disarms, this is where you can go to a LARPER and fool around and get the basics and then go back and practice putting it in action with some people who are interested in more realistically training.

    Judging by that STAB video it was clear that the training was all predicated on the assumption that the attacker was relatively untrained. Therefore, there are about 3 or 4 throws that you could have executed from that position. Once on the ground, it is easier to affect locks such as wrist locks to secure the knife. There might be one standing lock that I would try from that position (again it was pretty clear that the training was versus unskilled fighters). You can pull the knife to the ground and step on it sometimes. Some of the "fancier" disarms just come up incidentally. The thing is, even guys with little training aren't going to stand there and let you T-off on them. Any time that you grab and hold someone in an upright position, it isn't indefinite. You have to make a move other than hold and hit.

    Now as far as grabbing the blade, I hope that you guys mean that you would just try to pry the blade out from the back side, but when I asked earlier, no one but SJ responded to say that, that was the case.

    Also, I wasn't video-tape trained, so I only see glimpses of things here and there that I recommend. My instructor spent some time in the Philippines so I think that some of our stuff is probably Filipino in origin although he would NEVER admit it. The best examples would be the die less often stuff as far as hand movements. I will say that one of the most important facets of knife defense are the footwork and stance which isn't really covered directly in any video that I have seen. That's one of the big problems with the DLO videos, the students execute the hand movements but ignore the stance basics so they keep stabbing themselves or screwing up. One of the biggest advantages that a trained fighter has against an armed but untrained fighter is the footwork and stance. Generally, if you watch sparring video of the Dog Brothers, you will notice that most of the guys stand a bit differently with the weapons compared to empty hands and certainly with double and single knives.
    Last edited by HumbleWCGuy; 07-14-2011 at 05:13 AM.

  2. #227
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    Silva once won a fight by using kalari prayat and ninjutsu moves he learned from Stephen Hayes in the eighties.

    Eat that, you SOBs.
    I would use a blue eyed, blond haired Chechnyan to ruin you- Drake on weapons

  3. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC Elbows View Post
    Silva once won a fight by using kalari prayat and ninjutsu moves he learned from Stephen Hayes in the eighties.

    Eat that, you SOBs.
    That's the thing. The meat head wannabe contingent on this board thinks that everything traditional is dead until an mma guy reintroduces it.

  4. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC Elbows View Post
    Silva once won a fight by using kalari prayat and ninjutsu moves he learned from Stephen Hayes in the eighties.

    Eat that, you SOBs.
    When you are head and shoulders better than the opponent, you can win a fight using Taiji and needle point, while standing on one leg.
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  5. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    When you are head and shoulders better than the opponent, you can win a fight using Taiji and needle point, while standing on one leg.
    Which brings us back to the superiority of weapons over mma.
    I would use a blue eyed, blond haired Chechnyan to ruin you- Drake on weapons

  6. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC Elbows View Post
    Which brings us back to the superiority of weapons over mma.
    That's the thing. I have hit "mma" guys with a lot of stuff just because it is out of their consciousness.

  7. #232
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    MMA guys have hit me with stuff that was outside of my consciousness.

    But, I do think it's silly to try to squelch a wide range of styles when one is espousing a view that says anything useful should eventually make its way into the mix. I think it is simply the human need for orthodoxies. Even though mma will change, martial artists and fighters have always been slow to change, and view what they do as the entirety, even and including when exposed to methods that pose problems for them. Boxers fought the use of gloves for far longer than kung fu people have been dubious about mma, while mma proponents often list mma as a style. Need for orthodoxies is funny.
    I would use a blue eyed, blond haired Chechnyan to ruin you- Drake on weapons

  8. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC Elbows View Post
    MMA guys have hit me with stuff that was outside of my consciousness.

    But, I do think it's silly to try to squelch a wide range of styles when one is espousing a view that says anything useful should eventually make its way into the mix. I think it is simply the human need for orthodoxies. Even though mma will change, martial artists and fighters have always been slow to change, and view what they do as the entirety, even and including when exposed to methods that pose problems for them. Boxers fought the use of gloves for far longer than kung fu people have been dubious about mma, while mma proponents often list mma as a style. Need for orthodoxies is funny.
    Need for orthodoxy. Nice post.

  9. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by HumbleWCGuy View Post
    That's the thing. The meat head wannabe contingent on this board thinks that everything traditional is dead until an mma guy reintroduces it.
    It's all traditional. All the ways to kick, punch, throw, lock....these have been around for a long time. Maybe some forgotten and rediscovered and given funky names like Rubber Guard or X Guard. There's nothing new.

    At least from my perspective, when I hear "Traditional Chinese Martial Arts" I think of white kids in Chinese uniforms practicing Kung Fu forms, some non-too-intense line drills, fake weaponry and some lion dancing to earn sifu extra cash around Chinese New Years and weddings. I think of deep horse stances with iron ring adorned forearms. I think of wooden dummies and jow. Iron Palm. Dim Mak. And many animal styles.... unfortunately I also think of posers, non fighters, dreamers, defensive insecurity based on later.

    When I think of "MMA" or "Sport Combat" I think of sweat soaked men collapsing and sitting back against wall-to-wall padding after live rolling or sparring.... which took place after live drilling. After intense physical training.... I think of black eyes, bloody noses, jammed fingers and toes. I think about preparing oneself or team mates for an upcoming match. About pushing myself further than when I want to quit because that's what establishes one's reputation.... not belts, or years or if you take sifu to dinner. I think about what it's like to set an appointment to fight someone in 3 months. Knowing there is someone out there training specifically to hurt you. And hurt you bad and fast. I think about sitting backstage in a locker room and hearing the crowd roar and know someone just got slammed or KOed and I'm up next. About entering the cage to fight and having to step over the pool of blood collecting in the corner from previous fights.

    There's a difference between "TCMA" and "MMA". Not saying one is better than the other... that depends on one's goals. Though I will say training MMA is preparing for the now. Working and training and fighting now, not preparing for an unknown encounter sometime off in the future. It's very alive. Which is why I prefer it now. I don't always agree with approaches or techniques... I keep my mouth shut and do what the coach says when drilling. Then there's live free play. You can incorporate anything you want then. I prefer this to training an ideal technique without live interaction/testing/proving.
    Last edited by Ray Pina; 07-14-2011 at 10:53 AM.

  10. #235
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    I think of this as a stereo type. There is truth to it on some level, but the choice isn't Larp as a TCMAist or be a ultimate bad dude with mma. Like you said, it's all traditional.

  11. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Pina View Post
    At least from my perspective, when I hear "Traditional Chinese Martial Arts" I think of white kids in Chinese uniforms practicing Kung Fu forms, some non-too-intense line drills, fake weaponry and some lion dancing to earn sifu extra cash around Chinese New Years and weddings. I think of deep horse stances with iron ring adorned forearms. I think of wooden dummies and jow. Iron Palm. Dim Mak. And many animal styles.... unfortunately I also think of posers, non fighters, dreamers, defensive insecurity based on later.
    Not to say that I disagree with your assessment of the connotations of "TCMA" but there is a flip side to that coin.

    At least from my perspective, when I hear MMA I think of fat sub-literate date-rapey white kids in Affliction and Tap Out uniforms watching instructional YouTube videos, joining a gym for the t-shirt, showing up once a week, talking about wanting to get a fight, incessant chest puffing and posturing about the superiority of techniques they can barely grasp but have seen on the internet. Constant ball-clapping of this or that persona/technique variation. I think of beer soaked professional wrestling fans. I think of unjustifiable ego and swagger. Sub par striking and wet blanket tactics... unfortunately I also think of posers, non fighters, dreamers, defensive insecurity based on the latter.

    (Edit: I forgot board shorts and wallet chains. To be fair I have seen a lot of form collecting glorified figure skaters often make the same questionable sartorial decisions)
    Last edited by wenshu; 07-14-2011 at 01:47 PM.

  12. #237
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    It's high time date-rapey made it back into the lexicon of english adjectives.
    I would use a blue eyed, blond haired Chechnyan to ruin you- Drake on weapons

  13. #238
    At least from my perspective, when I hear MMA I think of fat sub-literate date-rapey white kids in Affliction and Tap Out uniforms watching instructional YouTube videos, joining a gym for the t-shirt, showing up once a week, talking about wanting to get a fight, incessant chest puffing and posturing about the superiority of techniques they can barely grasp but have seen on the internet. Constant ball-clapping of this or that persona/technique variation. I think of beer soaked professional wrestling fans. I think of unjustifiable ego and swagger. Sub par striking and wet blanket tactics... unfortunately I also think of posers, non fighters, dreamers, defensive insecurity based on the latter.
    ah, but in a reall MMA place they are always on the fringe because they can't beat anyone in rolling or sparring and they never actually fight

    in many TCMA places, the LARP'er is raised to a high level and the entire program "pats him on the back" in his dillusions
    Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253

    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    well, like LKFMDC - he's a genuine Kung Fu Hero™
    Quote Originally Posted by Taixuquan99 View Post
    As much as I get annoyed when it gets derailed by the array of strange angry people that hover around him like moths, his good posts are some of my favorites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    I think he goes into a cave to meditate and recharge his chi...and bite the heads off of bats, of course....

  14. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by KC Elbows View Post
    It's high time date-rapey made it back into the lexicon of english adjectives.
    it is

    "date-rapey (tm)" and you can paypal the $1 NOW
    Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253

    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    well, like LKFMDC - he's a genuine Kung Fu Hero™
    Quote Originally Posted by Taixuquan99 View Post
    As much as I get annoyed when it gets derailed by the array of strange angry people that hover around him like moths, his good posts are some of my favorites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    I think he goes into a cave to meditate and recharge his chi...and bite the heads off of bats, of course....

  15. #240
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    Glad I didn't mention McReacharound.

    Cr@p!
    I would use a blue eyed, blond haired Chechnyan to ruin you- Drake on weapons

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