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Thread: any comments on this xingyi clip?

  1. #1

    any comments on this xingyi clip?

    I know close-on zilch about xingyi. Can someone tell me what I'm seeing? Some of my initial questions are stuff like, one thing that strikes me immediately is that there's something very ego-free about it. It's not theatrical or show-offy. That appeals to me a lot. Is the guy performing extra slow or clearly as a teacher might do if letting a student film him to take the clip home as a reference for practice?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1ammWzpws4

  2. #2
    Comments with google-translate

    顶二楼的,完全练岔了
    zzyy2046 1 year ago
    Top floor, complete training fork [what does this mean?]

    真的很厲害阿
    A really powerful
    imnewmaster 1 year ago

    用了上半身彈抖,但下半身結構力沒有和上面整合,前進時的動能,*沒有連到拳頭上,所以命中目標時,就是手 臂加上腰的彈抖力,而不*是全身整力
    Playing with the upper body shaking, but not lower body strength and structural integration of the above, when the forward momentum, not connected to the fist, so hit the target, that is shaking the arm strength with the elastic waist, rather than the whole body force [I can't tell if this is describing the right mechanics or if it's a criticism]
    kamiu65 1 year ago 2

    求此人背景~~看了这么多,终于找到个真正的高手了!!
    The person seeking the background ~ ~ read so much, finally found a true master of the! !

    KongfuTerran 4 months ago
    Last edited by rett; 07-29-2011 at 02:39 AM.

  3. #3
    yes, he is expressing tan dou li or springy shaking/vibrating whole body force.

    1. the back and neck not straight. he probably leaned the head/neck down to watch his hand moves.

    2. the stepping from legs are loose or stance is not there.

    3. depending on the palm posture, some are penetrating or piercing power like a spear, not all of them are shaking powers

    ---

    most important of all the hands and postures have to be tight before and after moving.

    your eyes are looking at forward as if the opponent is in front of you and not looking down on the ground

    nose, lead hand and lead foot aligned or san jian xiang zhao.

    sitting on hip, then the spine is naturally aligned and neck suspended upright.

    or head has to be supporting or erecting toward the sky, tou ding xuan.

    ---

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by rett View Post
    Comments with google-translate

    顶二楼的,完全练岔了
    zzyy2046 1 year ago
    Top floor, complete training fork [what does this mean?]
    The comment "top floor" was google translate's attempt at translating an internet slang used to refer to another poster's comment. Problem is, there is not enough context to tell who he is referring to here.


    用了上半身彈抖,但下半身結構力沒有和上面整合,前進時的動能,*沒有連到拳頭上,所以命中目標時,就是手 臂加上腰的彈抖力,而不*是全身整力
    Playing with the upper body shaking, but not lower body strength and structural integration of the above, when the forward momentum, not connected to the fist, so hit the target, that is shaking the arm strength with the elastic waist, rather than the whole body force [I can't tell if this is describing the right mechanics or if it's a criticism]
    It's a critique. He is saying that the guy has really good power in the upper body but that his top half is not linked well to his bottom half. The poster is saying that the power is only from the waist up. He says that, ideally, the power being expressed here could be improved if the performer did a better job of linking his leg power to his upper body power through the waist.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by rett View Post
    I know close-on zilch about xingyi. Can someone tell me what I'm seeing? Some of my initial questions are stuff like, one thing that strikes me immediately is that there's something very ego-free about it. It's not theatrical or show-offy. That appeals to me a lot. Is the guy performing extra slow or clearly as a teacher might do if letting a student film him to take the clip home as a reference for practice?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1ammWzpws4

    for me,
    This is a high hand and real deal.
    Last edited by Hendrik; 07-29-2011 at 10:40 AM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by omarthefish View Post
    The comment "top floor" was google translate's attempt at translating an internet slang used to refer to another poster's comment. Problem is, there is not enough context to tell who he is referring to here.


    It's a critique. He is saying that the guy has really good power in the upper body but that his top half is not linked well to his bottom half. The poster is saying that the power is only from the waist up. He says that, ideally, the power being expressed here could be improved if the performer did a better job of linking his leg power to his upper body power through the waist.


    In my opinion, this critics is not precise.

    the person who is criticizing missed the action.

    in the youtube, the perfomer do used his bottom half to power his strike.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by rett View Post
    I know close-on zilch about xingyi. Can someone tell me what I'm seeing? Some of my initial questions are stuff like, one thing that strikes me immediately is that there's something very ego-free about it. It's not theatrical or show-offy. That appeals to me a lot. Is the guy performing extra slow or clearly as a teacher might do if letting a student film him to take the clip home as a reference for practice?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1ammWzpws4

    Well...you're seeing the linking fist sequence which is a popular intermediate form.

    I don't think I've ever seen the form performed in this way.

    The movements themselves have some good "snap" to them, but they are very tight. I don't think there is a full extension of any movement during the entire performance.

    I believe that this is a guy who specializes in delivering power from a close range - as his form seems to suggest.

    Here's more of a 'wushu' version of the form:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAnb9mpRjHc


    Train Hard,
    Josh Skinner

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by donjitsu2 View Post
    Well...you're seeing the linking fist sequence which is a popular intermediate form.

    I don't think I've ever seen the form performed in this way.

    The movements themselves have some good "snap" to them, but they are very tight. I don't think there is a full extension of any movement during the entire performance.

    I believe that this is a guy who specializes in delivering power from a close range - as his form seems to suggest.

    Here's more of a 'wushu' version of the form:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAnb9mpRjHc


    Train Hard,
    Josh Skinner


    For me, one clip is showing fajing practice all the way. the other clip is showing posture practice all the way.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    For me, one clip is showing fajing practice all the way. the other clip is showing posture practice all the way.

    I think that's an accurate way of putting it.

  10. #10
    I like Su Dong Chen's Xingyi. From the clips I've seen of him Su's pedagogical method seems to be to make everything he's doing as obvious to his students so they understand it. Its easy seeing from the video linked above how the five fists blend together into this sort of application, which again Su makes sure to demonstrate the mechanics of for the interested watcher's benefit. I've always thought it'd be quite cool to learn Su's Xingyi...

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Crosshandz View Post
    I like Su Dong Chen's Xingyi. From the clips I've seen of him Su's pedagogical method seems to be to make everything he's doing as obvious to his students so they understand it. Its easy seeing from the video linked above how the five fists blend together into this sort of application, which again Su makes sure to demonstrate the mechanics of for the interested watcher's benefit. I've always thought it'd be quite cool to learn Su's Xingyi...


    in my opinion, Su is a great postures practioners.

    However,
    Su doesnt have the fajing kung fu such as the above post.

    I look at other Su's application clip and his power generation is usual karate, boxing, wu shu or ordinary people type. his inside and outside three synchronization (Nei Wai Shan Her) is good for posturing but when it comes to momentum generation he doesnt do it at all or just being very plain similar to the wushu person above.
    Last edited by Hendrik; 07-30-2011 at 07:16 AM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    in my opinion, Su is a great postures practioners.

    However,
    Su doesnt have the fajing kung fu such as the above post.

    I look at other Su's application clip and his power generation is usual karate, boxing, wu shu or ordinary people type. his inside and outside three synchronization (Nei Wai Shan Her) is good for posturing but when it comes to momentum generation he doesnt do it at all or just being very plain similar to the wushu person above.
    I think in Su's five elements you can see him very gently tightening his fists and then relaxing them again. I have never met Su Dong Chen but to my eyes the key components of timing, posture, tension, relaxation, rising, drilling, falling and overturning are there in his Xingyi. I assumed watching him that there was some reason why he didn't want to display the Fajing overtly.

    The same components are present in Feng Zhengbao's Xingyi. However, Feng's intention in this particular instance is not pedagogical as Su Dong Chen's clearly was but to display Xingyi's true power. This is great if you know what you're looking at but if you have no idea you would miss a lot you would just see Feng moving rapidly without being able to understand how he's generating his power.

    It comes down to the intention of the two masters in the two different instances. I'm sure if Feng were your teacher he would slow down and show you exactly at what stage he was wrapping, coiling, how it related to his breathing, the turning of his wrists, forearm etc.etc. Likewise I'm sure if Su was seriously fighting someone he would be showing all the elements of Fajing that he and his Kung fu brothers such as Xu Hongji and Luo Dexiu gained rewown for.
    Last edited by Crosshandz; 07-30-2011 at 08:18 AM. Reason: Figured if I was gonna talk about the TST Xingyi it'd be best to mention Luo Dexiu ;)

  13. #13

    Thumbs up

    Serendipity...

    Xingyiquan by Feng Zheng-bao

    In the partner exercises shown here by Feng you see a lot more of the mechanics he blitzes through elsewhere. Top quality Xingyi.
    Last edited by Crosshandz; 07-30-2011 at 07:59 AM. Reason: Had to substitute ****z-es for blitzes. Didn't even know 'to ****z' was a bad verb.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Crosshandz View Post
    I think in Su's five elements you can see him very gently tightening his fists and then relaxing them again. I have never met Su Dong Chen but to my eyes the key components of timing, posture, tension, relaxation, rising, drilling, falling and overturning are there in his Xingyi. I assumed watching him that there was some reason why he didn't want to display the Fajing overtly.

    The same components are present in Feng Zhengbao's Xingyi. However, Feng's intention in this particular instance is not pedagogical as Su Dong Chen's clearly was but to display Xingyi's true power. This is great if you know what you're looking at but if you have no idea you would miss a lot you would just see Feng moving rapidly without being able to understand how he's generating his power.

    It comes down to the intention of the two masters in the two different instances. I'm sure if Feng were your teacher he would slow down and show you exactly at what stage he was wrapping, coiling, how it related to his breathing, the turning of his wrists, forearm etc.etc. Likewise I'm sure if Su was seriously fighting someone he would be showing all the elements of Fajing that he and his Kung fu brothers such as Xu Hongji and Luo Dexiu gained rewown for.

    For me, technical speaking

    The first clip, Zeng both have the same type of fajing kung fu foundation as CXW here
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hyl8m...eature=related




    Su and Luo have the same type of patterns, and dont have that type of kung fu the above three expose to.



    in fact,

    Su, in the following clip has shown his difficulties to handle his own momentum at motion in slow speed.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BOl6zpaxK8



    Su is certainly in trouble if facing an mmA. Not CXW and the first XingYi player who has ability to fajing on different part of the body.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Crosshandz View Post
    Serendipity...

    Xingyiquan by Feng Zheng-bao

    In the partner exercises shown here by Feng you see a lot more of the mechanics he blitzes through elsewhere. Top quality Xingyi.


    For me, CXW and the first Xingyi player's momentum handling preceed Feng alots.

    Feng's above clip actually shows Feng's issue in handling momentum, he is still fragmented/rigid compare with CXW and the first Xingyi player, thus he will not get as fast acceleration and power.

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