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Thread: Why does MMA target WC?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by k gledhill View Post
    from your choice of statements its obvious you dont understand the difference in whats going on in each clip and why.
    Let me help you and others.

    1st clip is the fighting distances and forces you will be in to actually hit and exchange power in a punch with parries, using a balanced stance in controlled exchanges. To help develop your technique for sparring. You can see clearly in the 1st clip both guys being coached look like either in the second clip

    2nd clip is why we do so much of the 1st clip
    This sort of stuff has limited effectiveness in preparing you to spare against a skilled opponent.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjcozWSvpjs
    This is a bit closer to effective drilling
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Flkvnk8cPB8
    Phil's site has some decent drilling as well.
    Last edited by HumbleWCGuy; 08-11-2011 at 01:56 AM.

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by HumbleWCGuy View Post
    This sort of stuff has limited effectiveness in preparing you to spare against a skilled opponent.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjcozWSvpjs
    This is a bit closer to effective drilling
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzb5e...eature=related
    Phil's site has some decent drilling as well.
    We are developing each other for fighting in the first clip, iow the work out is just a module. There are other stages of fighting where we dont do what you see in clip 1, we adopt attack or counter attack and use the by products of the clip 1 to make our stances better when we 'meet' force coming at us suddenly, we dont try to do chi-sao, now we strike with parries and awareness to mistakes on the line defense/attack. IE turning too much in 'anticipation' of clashing force...like anticipating a guns recoil when you first start shooting. So we load 'blanks' on occasion to make sure the combined forces of your VT arent chasing arms, over turning, balanced...
    Its a compliant drill, not a competition of two guys in a weird clinch fight. Its not clinch fight training. We are trying to develop attributes that cant really be seen by a third party on a clip.

    the second clip isnt working ?
    Last edited by k gledhill; 08-10-2011 at 07:26 PM.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by WC1277 View Post
    . . . .Too bad beimo matches aren't still around.... every practitioner should have to do it at least once...
    We have them in NYC all the time. We have two guys fighting Aug. 28th against various styles.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsS2WUlq8C0

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39-unagGqPw
    Last edited by Phil Redmond; 08-10-2011 at 08:32 PM.
    Sifu Phillip Redmond
    Traditional Wing Chun Academy NYC/L.A.
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  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by WC1277 View Post
    Too bad beimo matches aren't still around.... every practitioner should have to do it at least once...
    I'm a fan of it being a regular part of the training diet.

  5. #35
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    Here's another one

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YP05PC3ReW0
    We do them regularly in NYC. If anyone wants to test their skills here let me know.
    Sifu Phillip Redmond
    Traditional Wing Chun Academy NYC/L.A.
    菲利普雷德蒙師傅
    傳統詠春拳學院紐約市

    WCKwoon
    wck
    sifupr

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by k gledhill View Post
    We are developing each other for fighting in the first clip, iow the work out is just a module. There are other stages of fighting where we dont do what you see in clip 1, we adopt attack or counter attack and use the by products of the clip 1 to make our stances better when we 'meet' force coming at us suddenly, we dont try to do chi-sao, now we strike with parries and awareness to mistakes on the line defense/attack. IE turning too much in 'anticipation' of clashing force...like anticipating a guns recoil when you first start shooting. So we load 'blanks' on occasion to make sure the combined forces of your VT arent chasing arms, over turning, balanced...
    Its a compliant drill, not a competition of two guys in a weird clinch fight. Its not clinch fight training. We are trying to develop attributes that cant really be seen by a third party on a clip.

    the second clip isnt working ?
    Here is the second clip again
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Flkvnk8cPB8

    Anyway, I am sorry, but I don't buy that sort of training. Now any training is better than no training, but in my opinion, doing the type of training that Bayer was demonstrating doesn't amount to anything in real situations. It's "demonstration martial arts."

  7. #37
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    And this also answers northwind’s original question, Humble posted two clips and most MMA guys would agree with his assessment of the two clips, then we have Kevin saying why the first clip is so much better than the second and what it instils in the fighter…but there are no sparring or fighting clips showing how well these drills translate to actual contact drills

    Most MMA guys will look at the first drill see it as non contact wisefull rubbish, and when told no it builds this and that superior ability will simply say ok where are the good sparring/fighting clips showing this?....to which we hear no if you cant see it in the first clip there’s no point posting the sparring clips because you still wont get it…..

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Redmond View Post
    We have them in NYC all the time. We have two guys fighting Aug. 28th against various styles.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsS2WUlq8C0

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39-unagGqPw
    Phil, since you have grand students, does that make you a grand master? Don't answer just kidding.

    Please get more clips of that kid, I am looking forward to seeing his improvement.

  9. #39

    Why does MMA target WC

    Quote Originally Posted by Northwind View Post
    Hi Lance. Thanks for your reply, but I think you completely misunderstood my point. I could have named a gazillion more styles. I was NOT comparing styles. I was asking why the insults of WC from MMA were only directed towards WC and not other styles (the styles I named were simply for example; as in, I could say "Why did they not pick on Bajiquan, Gaojia Baguazhang, TongBei Quan, DaBeiQuan, etc.). Point being, I was asking mainly why did they pick on WC over other styles, and then after the two replies I was asking thoughts on why had WC grown so popular. Does that make more sense ?
    Northwind , okay I ' ll give you a clear answer if I did misunderstood your point ,
    this is just my clear reply to your reply , everybody speaks about MMA and how great it is , because I read other topic posts too on this forum , they put down kung fu saying that it ' s useless in the streets . So here comes wing chun which stands out . WC is the best believe it or not , and no one in WC did MMA before ,
    WC stands out . And I did ' nt say you were comparing styles these were my own words . Why they don ' t pick on other styles you ask ? Maybe those other kung fu styles don ' t stand out like WC does , and Northwind , you ask the question ?
    So maybe you know the answers to to this ? Why do you think other styles
    don ' t stand out ? I ' m not saying that other kung fu styles are not good , all I 'm really saying is there is no Sifu or practitioner or fighter which can represent other styles of kung fu against MMA . But I don ' t know if you know but ,
    I do know of 1 - Hung Gar practitioner who trains with Wing Lam School , who fought in one of those MMA matches his opponent was bigger than him , but this hung gar practioner beat his opponent . He ' s on you tube because I saw the video clip .

    Realistically , speaking that ' s the way I see it , right ? You can name all the kung fu styles you know , but until you here about these styles fighting against other styles which stands out , it ' s just something that we all have yet to see , these styles don ' t have anybody representing them , or maybe they have nothing to prove who knows ? You can go on arguing or debating against me , but it ' s pointless , because it is what is , right ? People like learning WC over other styles , because they probably tried it WC out and liked the WC style over other kung fu styles . Or maybe they have something they like about WC , that they could ' nt find in other styles . They tried other styles before WC . but they like WC instead . Any styles which stands out always going have rivalries or competition against other styles regardless if it ' s MMA or WC .

  10. #40
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    Bong sao should never be used as a guard like that hit does. If you had time to throw a bong from non contact range he should have used something else

  11. #41
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    Wing chun stands out does it…ok other than being the most popular style how exactly does it stand out? I mean theres no evidence it’s a better fighting style than other kung fu styles is there? If there is care to share it with us

    Your type of post is the reason wing chun is targeted over and above other styles, you post wing chun is the best but wheres the proof ? CLF has countless clips of it working and winning in tournaments where’s wing chun’s winning record?

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    Wing chun stands out does it…ok other than being the most popular style how exactly does it stand out? I mean theres no evidence it’s a better fighting style than other kung fu styles is there? If there is care to share it with us

    Your type of post is the reason wing chun is targeted over and above other styles, you post wing chun is the best but wheres the proof ? CLF has countless clips of it working and winning in tournaments where’s wing chun’s winning record?
    There are more CLF fighers world-wide. I am pretty sure that it is still the most popular in China so you would expect to see more CLF clips overall.

    Forgive me for saying this, but theoretically, Wing Chun should work very well, it just has to be trained properly. Structurally, it is like a kickboxing art which are quite successful in the ring. Essentially, Wing Chun hands are similar to classical MT which includes straight punches, elbows on the inside, and clinching. The diference being that the clinching isn't quite as sophisticated and WC has a cool entry system. The kicks can be whatever savate-like and landing the ball of the foot or heavy similar to MT. The problem is that few individuals are willing to train it hard.

    If you ask me, Chi Sao is an easy out for people who want to be non-contact larpers so instructors taught it and paid the bills. Now there is a whole generation of instructor who have never even had a legitimate sparring match within the confines of the school let alone competed.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by bennyvt View Post
    Bong sao should never be used as a guard like that hit does. If you had time to throw a bong from non contact range he should have used something else
    I thought the same, though I thought it looked more like lan sau. Good to see gearing up to spar. Their movement looked good, fast, nimble. But 'realistic'? Slow telegraphed kicks that were met with high tan/gan combination that only took it on the tan sau.

    If just training the footwork reponse after meeting the kick then OK, but the kick + response to the kick bought the clip down a bit IMO.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by HumbleWCGuy View Post
    There are more CLF fighers world-wide. I am pretty sure that it is still the most popular in China so you would expect to see more CLF clips overall.

    Forgive me for saying this, but theoretically, Wing Chun should work very well, it just has to be trained properly. Structurally, it is like a kickboxing art which are quite successful in the ring. Essentially, Wing Chun hands are similar to classical MT which includes straight punches, elbows on the inside, and clinching. The diference being that the clinching isn't quite as sophisticated and WC has a cool entry system. The kicks can be whatever savate-like and landing the ball of the foot or heavy similar to MT. The problem is that few individuals are willing to train it hard.

    If you ask me, Chi Sao is an easy out for people who want to be non-contact larpers so instructors taught it and paid the bills. Now there is a whole generation of instructor who have never even had a legitimate sparring match within the confines of the school let alone competed.
    Agree that’s the problem and why its gets the stick from MMA guys, it talks a good fight but thats it

    More CLF fighters, probably, but wing chun has the more students without a doubt so how come it produces so few fighters……………..

  15. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by HumbleWCGuy View Post
    Here is the second clip again
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Flkvnk8cPB8

    Anyway, I am sorry, but I don't buy that sort of training. Now any training is better than no training, but in my opinion, doing the type of training that Bayer was demonstrating doesn't amount to anything in real situations. It's "demonstration martial arts."

    Its not fighting , its a drill ..if you dont understand it that's fine. But saying it doesnt amount to anything is ignorant .

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