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Thread: Taiwan Kung Fu

  1. #31
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    Did you try youku.com, Lucas? I wonder who made the highlight reel? In Taiwan the kung fu seems to have been the real deal!
    I was on the metro earlier, deep in meditation, when a ruffian came over and started causing trouble. He started pushing me with his bag, steadily increasing the force until it became very annoying. When I turned to him, before I could ask him to stop, he immediately started hurling abuse like a scoundrel. I performed a basic chin na - carotid artery strike combination and sent him to sleep. The rest of my journey was very peaceful, and passersby hailed me as a hero - Warrior Man

  2. #32
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    Lucas,
    The first clip actually looks like it's from China, not Taiwan. The second clip is from Taiwan.

    Although I lived in Taiwan and spoke Mandarin fairly well, I've lost some of it since I left almost 20 years ago. And my reading was once okay but never great and now that's downhill too, so I wouldn't be able to navigate youku(?) or whatever, either. The one I remember clearly as being labeled the "Bloodbath in Taiwan" was the 1986 international kuo shu championship in Taiwan. I was there, and it was brutal, and there has been footage of it on youtube, but I haven't found a lot of it. I doubt you'll find it under "bloodbath in Taiwan."

    I haven't seen some of the more so-called "dramatic" fights that I remember seeing in those tournaments on youtube yet. That doesn't mean they aren't on youtube or wherever, somewhere out there.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 09-02-2011 at 03:23 PM.

  3. #33
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    What do you suggest we search under?
    I was on the metro earlier, deep in meditation, when a ruffian came over and started causing trouble. He started pushing me with his bag, steadily increasing the force until it became very annoying. When I turned to him, before I could ask him to stop, he immediately started hurling abuse like a scoundrel. I performed a basic chin na - carotid artery strike combination and sent him to sleep. The rest of my journey was very peaceful, and passersby hailed me as a hero - Warrior Man

  4. #34
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    I tried "1980s Taiwan full-contact", "full-contact kung fu", 1986 Taiwan kuo shu championship, etc. I'm kind of a dinosaur when it comes to computers, so I'll have to apologize if my net-fu isn't up to snuff.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    I tried "1980s Taiwan full-contact", "full-contact kung fu", 1986 Taiwan kuo shu championship, etc. I'm kind of a dinosaur when it comes to computers, so I'll have to apologize if my net-fu isn't up to snuff.
    Actually, I think those highlights are from the 1986 Chengdu Sichuan Lei Tai Championships:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwlDwJoqbiQ

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7YM4vyg_yU

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIOOKU6sGbk

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwqI3WobyYk

    Maybe I need the Chinese characters to search for that on youku. But if this is the Chengdu Lei Tai, how sick must the Taiwan Blood Bath have been!!!!
    Last edited by Faruq; 09-02-2011 at 06:25 PM.
    I was on the metro earlier, deep in meditation, when a ruffian came over and started causing trouble. He started pushing me with his bag, steadily increasing the force until it became very annoying. When I turned to him, before I could ask him to stop, he immediately started hurling abuse like a scoundrel. I performed a basic chin na - carotid artery strike combination and sent him to sleep. The rest of my journey was very peaceful, and passersby hailed me as a hero - Warrior Man

  6. #36
    My wife and I's book, Chinese Martial Arts Training Manuals: A Historical Survey, has an entire chapter on the history of Taiwanese martial arts. It covers the situation in Taiwan starting with the late Ming (Japanese/Chinese pirate folks like Koxinga) on to such modern day Taiwanese martial artists as Andy Wang and Liu Laoshi.

    As to Smith's books---not to speak ill of the recently departed---but Smith's view of Taiwanese martial arts was "less than accurate". It is not his fault, it simply was who he was and the time he was there. He was white, US military, with no Taiwanese family contacts, who lived in Taiwan a short period of time, and that short period of time was right at the start of the White Terror Period, he knew nothing about the history of the island of Taiwan----all of which adds up to a very distorted view of things. In a strange but very true way, Smith never "lived" in Taiwan, he lived and worked in a white, US military enclave known as Tien Mu, and I strongly presume had zero contact with Taiwanese (I am not talking about his KMT handlers---I am talking about "real" Taiwanese and yes, I know he claimed to be tight with the Hung brothers, but that is a whole other chapter).

    In any event, back on topic; you might find that chapter in my book of interest. Basically Taiwanese martial arts history falls into four phases:
    The Ming/Qing dynasties
    The Japanese Colonial Period
    The arrival of the KMT and the White Terror Period
    Modern Taiwanese martial arts

    Since I have written that book I would have actually added a fifth phase which would be the most modern phase called "The Cross Strait Phase" which is the trend I notice for mainland teachers to set up schools in Taiwan. This is possible nowadays becasue of changes to the Taiwanese law allowing more cross strait exchanges.

    take care,
    Brian
    p.s. Taiwan is a great place, tons of great people and a fair amount of martial arts talent. I really miss it.

  7. #37

    Thumbs up

    Tong Bei or ever ready from Ma family (fan zi, ba ji, pi gua--)

    they started a branch school in Taipei a few years back.

    cool about cross straits period.

    or both sides of the taiwan straits.

    --


  8. #38
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    I remember seeing people who practiced "Taiwan Chuan," which looked to me, superficially at least, like a combination of Fukien/Fujian Crane and TKD/karate.

    I had some great years with some fine people in Taiwan. I miss it, too.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 09-02-2011 at 07:43 PM.

  9. #39
    Next time I go back home, I'll look at Smith's books again as my dad has a couple of them. I've been looking at Antonio Graceffo's videos on YouTube as well as reading some of his articles. Taiwan has a lot of martial history, but seems like only the internal arts are promoted. I've read that even the KMT promotes taekwondo over Chinese kung fu.

    I do remember reading the magazine's TREASURES OF TAIWAN columns, which the only one I still own is Chen Yan Sen and nunchaku.

  10. #40
    This is a good thread. Don't let it die so soon.

  11. #41
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    In Taipei, you can find a lot of people who practice Chang Chuan styles, plus a lot of Bei Tanglang (Northern Mantis) styles; Baji, etc. Most common, though, it Taiji. Outside of Taipei, different styles of Fujian Crane seemed more common. When I was there, there was a beginning a fad of weird 'qigong' among a lot of people who would freak out and act possessed at qigong demos/events, including lots of audience members.

    It was not so common for people who practice kung fu to do so much into adulthood, except for Taiji. After university, most quit kung fu to devote their time to their careers and other endeavors.

    *Forgot to mention that there's a good Wing Chun group in Taipei headed by Lo Man-Kam.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 09-05-2011 at 10:46 AM.

  12. #42
    One thing that I would add is that the Japanese influence is often overlooked when Taiwanese martial arts are discussed. The 50 year Japanese period had a major impact on the course of Taiwanese martial arts. The reason Taiwan has excellent kendo and judo clubs is the Japanese/Taiwanese police connection. That also accounts for Taiwan's strong Tae Kwon Do showings.

    Another interesting aspect to Taiwanese martial arts is the effect that government sponsorship had (and still has). A brief example of that is---the Taiwanese government will give a lifetime government teaching job to anyone who wins an international martial arts competition for Taiwan. I helped a friend of mine draft the law that established that program.

    It was my one and only experience as a "martial arts/sports law" attorney!

    take care,
    Brian

  13. #43
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    Agreed. I had spoken to some (mostly older) Taiwanese who practiced Japanese MA and the influence is very strong. I used to help out at a Taipei-area MA supply store for a while, and the boss there was into Kendo. One day he asked me why I waste my time with CMA, and that I should practice Kendo.

    Over a few-days' period, another worker from that shop and I set up the mats for the judo room at a newly-built police facility.

    Besides the Japanese occupation, I believe some other strong factors in the popularity of JMA (as well as TKD) is that the teaching is better-organized; goals are generally more clear-cut; students wear white, nicer-looking uniforms; and the fact that, among many, the CMA have a poor image connected with gangsters and quacks. Given that, I can see why more parents there would rather send their kids to TKD class than to kung fu. Also, the CMA are also viewed by many there (in some cases, rightfully so) as "hua chuan hsiu tui" (flowery fists/embroidery legs), meaning only good for show, whereas the JMA and TKD are viewed as straightforward and practical.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 09-06-2011 at 09:10 AM.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    In Taipei, you can find a lot of people who practice Chang Chuan styles, plus a lot of Bei Tanglang (Northern Mantis) styles; Baji, etc. Most common, though, it Taiji.
    Anyone know if any Bak Mei Pai is practiced anywhere in Taiwan?


    Quote Originally Posted by brianlkennedy View Post
    One thing that I would add is that the Japanese influence is often overlooked when Taiwanese martial arts are discussed. The 50 year Japanese period had a major impact on the course of Taiwanese martial arts. The reason Taiwan has excellent kendo and judo clubs is the Japanese/Taiwanese police connection. That also accounts for Taiwan's strong Tae Kwon Do showings.

    I find that intriguing. Why does the Japanese occupation account for the Taiwanese showing strong in a Korean art? Bear in mind I've never been outside the states, so I acknowledge my ignorance in advance.
    I was on the metro earlier, deep in meditation, when a ruffian came over and started causing trouble. He started pushing me with his bag, steadily increasing the force until it became very annoying. When I turned to him, before I could ask him to stop, he immediately started hurling abuse like a scoundrel. I performed a basic chin na - carotid artery strike combination and sent him to sleep. The rest of my journey was very peaceful, and passersby hailed me as a hero - Warrior Man

  15. #45
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    Although TKD is a Korean art, it originally was based on Shotokan karate. Also, the way TKD is taught is based along the lines of JMA, even though the current, Olympic-style TKD is several steps removed from what it once was.

    TKD is also the art taught in the Taiwan military. It used to be CMA (not sure which style or styles, though; Baji??). I was told that during the 1960s or '70s, they switched to TKD because some influential man (a general? a politician?) witnessed a TKD demo and was highly impressed with the board and brick breaking, and felt it was easier to master than CMA.

    As for Bak Mei Pai, it may very well be practiced in Taiwan, but I never personally saw or heard of any practitioners there.

    Off the top of my head, here's a list of the CMA styles I personally saw there, which includes:

    Chang Chuan (includes Tantui/Cha Chuan, Mei Hua, etc.)

    Tanglang (N. Mantis, including 7-Star, 8-Step, 6-Harmony, and Secret Door styles)

    Various styles of Fujian White Crane

    Wing Chun

    Hung Gar (the style I saw was very different from the Lam Sai-Wing lineage often seen in Hong Kong)

    Hou Chuan (which was a southern Monkey system)

    Hsing-I

    Bagua

    Taiji (Chen and Yang styles)

    Pao Chui (Cannon Fist)

    Ying Zhao (N. Eagle Claw)

    Baji

    Pi Qua

    Shuai Jiao

    Yen Ching Chuan

    Tien Shan Pai

    I had heard of Choy Lee Fut (Cailifo) being taught in Taiwan, but I never once actually saw an exemple of it there.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 09-06-2011 at 08:17 PM.

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