Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 93

Thread: Where are all the Complete Monkey Style systems?

  1. #46
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Posts
    888
    Quote Originally Posted by mantid1 View Post
    Well after watching some of these "traditional" monkey sets the more I question people knowing what is going on.

    These forms seem like they imitate a monkey before and after a fight or during every day life. Great acting, that is for sure. But, just acting.

    If you were going to have a pure monkey FIGHTING system I would say that modern Judo or wrestling would be it. If you watch video that is how monkeys fight.

    These guys immitate monkeys in everyday life but not fighting.

    If I recall correctly, mooying said his forms do not immitate monkeys.....which would be correct in my opinion.

    Getting on topic for the PRAYING MANTIS forum......I dont think that a mantis master really tries to look like a mantis....tiger master like a tiger or crane master like a crane. It is more about attitude and culture. That is it.

    Praying mantis has the foot work of the monkey? Well I dont think it they really thought it was "monkey" foot work. A monkey or ape has the ability to walk up right....so that may be where it comes from. "Fast and agile footwork" would probably be the best description....its just that people do not understand things when it comes to culture....and yes I know about the "monkey king" , santa claus and wang lang.

    This is an example of a monkey fight. Why would anyone want to immitate that?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7-1p870wLw

    Gorillas in training but not actually fighing.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mov-Z...eature=related

    Watch this and tell me that Judo and wresting shouldnt be the monkey style! Single leg take downs traditional throws and escapes...good stuff! I love the way he initiates the attack at 22 seconds inthe vid!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu_JS...eature=related
    I am a student of Mooyingmantis and teach his monkey system. Let me say that there is less monkeying around in our systems forms. However, our Monkey style does include animal (monkey) tactics.

    All traditional animal mimic styles use something that has been attributed to their animals survival skills:

    Large Monkeys such as Chimps and Gorillas use swatting or pawing techniques for punches. They also like to charge and pounce on top of smaller creatures.

    Small Monkey such as Gibbons use agility / speed / trickery to out wit or confuse their opponents. Smaller Monkeys also use quick grabbing and scratching as well as biting techniques.

    All of these animal techniques can be converted into human equations and fighting situations.

    In our Angry Monkey system we do not scratch our balls and eat fleas while in a fighting stance. However we use Monkey based techniques such as:

    Reaching over someones guard to scratch there eyes. While they block the eye scratch we kick them in the groin. etc. These are nothing new in the realm of Kung Fu, just used in a way for Monkey.

    ginosifu

  2. #47
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Posts
    888
    Quote Originally Posted by SergeTk View Post
    5 Ancestors include forms specific to each ancestor and we also have forms which include all 5 ancestors. Is there a complete monkey system within 5 ancestors? I don't know....

    Here is a link to one of 5 Ancestor's monkey forms
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujd1fKSnh_s
    I watched Andrew Foster (5 Ancestors Sifu) do a Monkey form similar to the one you posted. Very Southeast Asian in flavor. Are there applications to the Monkey sets? Do you fight with the Monkey style?

    ginosifu

  3. #48
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    555
    Quote Originally Posted by ginosifu View Post
    The reason I bring this up is that the Monkey I practice (from mooyingmantis) is from a tail less monkey. Tail less Monkeys include Gibbons, Apes, Chimpanzes and Gorillas.
    "Tail-less" monkeys are referred to as Great Apes, of which we (humans) belong. So, you want to fight like a human ape?

  4. #49
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Vancouver, B.C. Canada
    Posts
    2,138

    Smile

    Let's not forget the "Bear style"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUcXoZTQLLA

    I think we should remember that fighting based on animal styles are usually based on context just like the Bear style fighting above.

    Animals fight for 3 reasons. Food, sex, and survival.

    Animals play fight when they are young. These play fights are actually life lessons for the 3 reasons listed.

    When they fight for food and survival, their actions are sharp and short. Simply, they don't mess about.

    Animal fighting in most cases are honorable fights or ritual fights meaning their design isn't about killing each other although it may seem so. In the case of the bear fight above, it is to attract the attention of a female bear and earn the right to mate with her.

    Fighting is either practical or ritual purposes through out the animal kingdom. So when we examine our nature and revisit our animal instinct. Please take a moment and ask yourselves what purpose does your fighting (system and techniques included) serves.

    Mantis108
    Contraria Sunt Complementa

    對敵交手歌訣

    凡立勢不可站定。凡交手須是要走。千着萬着﹐走為上着﹐進為高着﹐閃賺騰挪為
    妙着。


    CCK TCPM in Yellowknife

    TJPM Forum

  5. #50
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    North Canton, OH
    Posts
    1,848
    Mantid1,

    Our monkey system does include throwing and grappling, as well as striking and kicking.

    Unfortunately, these things can be very dangerous to practice at more than a slow speed.

    A few years ago I taught a throwing technique during a seminar at Gino's school. It is a very dangerous technique that works well in combat. Though we practiced the technique as cautiously and slowly as possible, one smaller student threw a larger student and caused an injury to the ribcage that could only be fixed through surgery. It was a sad reminder that combat efficient techniques can be very hard to practice safely, even with due care.
    Richard A. Tolson
    https://www.patreon.com/mantismastersacademy

    There are two types of Chinese martial artists. Those who can fight and those who should be teaching dance or yoga!

    53 years of training, 43 years of teaching and still aiming for perfection!

    Recovering Forms Junkie! Even my twelve step program has four roads!

  6. #51
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Posts
    888
    Quote Originally Posted by Fa Xing View Post
    "Tail-less" monkeys are referred to as Great Apes, of which we (humans) belong. So, you want to fight like a human ape?
    All animals have techniques unique to their species.

    Big Cats pounce on top, then grab the throat and suffocate their opponent.

    Bears and Gorilla charge then pounce on top and use pawing or swatting to pulverize their opponents.

    Small Monkeys use speed, agility, deception and faints to get in close enough to bite and claw their opponents.

    Snakes spit in their opponents eyes or bite with venom and some coil around and suffocate their opponents.

    Martial Arts masters from the past sought out to copy these tactics and translate them into usable human fighting techniques. Animal mimic styles try to emulate some of these unique animal strategies in their quest to be a viable ma.

    Quote Originally Posted by mantis108 View Post
    Animals fight for 3 reasons. Food, sex, and survival.
    Mantis108
    Mantis108: As sophisticated animals, can we not utilize animal techniques for survival in self defense?

    Mooyingmantis: Krista's chest has arthritis built up now and every once in a while it acts up and bothers her.

    ginosifu

  7. #52
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    North Canton, OH
    Posts
    1,848
    Quote Originally Posted by ginosifu View Post

    Mooyingmantis: Krista's chest has arthritis built up now and every once in a while it acts up and bothers her.

    ginosifu
    Dang, sorry to hear that.
    Richard A. Tolson
    https://www.patreon.com/mantismastersacademy

    There are two types of Chinese martial artists. Those who can fight and those who should be teaching dance or yoga!

    53 years of training, 43 years of teaching and still aiming for perfection!

    Recovering Forms Junkie! Even my twelve step program has four roads!

  8. #53
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Posts
    888
    Quote Originally Posted by mooyingmantis View Post
    Dang, sorry to hear that.
    It's really kinda gross, she has a big divot in her chest about the size of a golf ball and about 1/4-1/2 " deep. It is like part of her anatomy moved over to create this hole - eeewwwwwwu

    She's ok with it though, just another battle scare in her kung fu character !

    ginosifu

  9. #54
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    North Canton, OH
    Posts
    1,848
    Quote Originally Posted by ginosifu View Post
    It's really kinda gross, she has a big divot in her chest about the size of a golf ball and about 1/4-1/2 " deep. It is like part of her anatomy moved over to create this hole - eeewwwwwwu

    She's ok with it though, just another battle scare in her kung fu character !

    ginosifu
    Hope her husband isn't reading this and wondering how you know about the details of her chest.

    She is quite a girl!
    Richard A. Tolson
    https://www.patreon.com/mantismastersacademy

    There are two types of Chinese martial artists. Those who can fight and those who should be teaching dance or yoga!

    53 years of training, 43 years of teaching and still aiming for perfection!

    Recovering Forms Junkie! Even my twelve step program has four roads!

  10. #55
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    555
    Quote Originally Posted by ginosifu View Post
    All animals have techniques unique to their species.
    I can understand that, I just find it better to practice martial arts according to our own anatomical and physiological make-up where we would be more efficient and arguably more effective.

    Animal styles sure are fun to practice though

    Oh, and since I have a biology background, I get a little upset when people call apes "monkeys", they're not monkeys. Monkeys generally have tails, apes do not.
    Last edited by Fa Xing; 10-04-2011 at 04:34 PM.

  11. #56
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Posts
    888
    Quote Originally Posted by Fa Xing View Post
    Oh, and since I have a biology background, I get a little upset when people call apes "monkeys", they're not monkeys. Monkeys generally have tails, apes do not.
    I think a lot us don't understand the difference. In our system it is the tail less apes (Gibbons, Chimps and Gorillas) that makes up our style.

    ginosifu

  12. #57
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    768
    Quote Originally Posted by ginosifu View Post
    I think a lot us don't understand the difference. In our system it is the tail less apes (Gibbons, Chimps and Gorillas) that makes up our style.

    ginosifu
    I still don't understand how a Chinese system came to imitate gorillas and chimps though. Pretty sure I saw some knuckle walking in one clip. Definitely exclusively used by the great apes and not the gibbon (and we've already established that this style has pretty much nothing to do with any of the gibbon influenced styles). Though it was with the full fist which is what Orangutans do - at least Borneo and Sumatra are a little closer to China than Africa is. Maybe the founder spent a lot of time in zoos???

    FX - I've got a zoology background too, hence the interest...

    BT

  13. #58
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    North Canton, OH
    Posts
    1,848
    As I stated earlier:

    Quote Originally Posted by mooyingmantis View Post

    To set the record straight:

    ...I have no idea what type of monkey/ape the style was originally based on. The style is tailless in that none of the moves mimic the actions of a monkey's tail.
    The knuckle walking you observed at the start of the form was simply added for demonstrations. It was designed to set us apart from other demonstrators and to identify us as simian style practitioners. Otherwise, without a knowledge of our monkey theories, onlookers could easily confuse us with any other type of Northern Shaolin type practitioner.

    Perhaps we should change the opening to performing the sets naked and flinging poo at the crowd. Would that be more acceptable to amateur zoologists?

    LOL! Get over the few seconds of mimicking displayed at the beginning of the form. The rest of the form is what defines us.

    If peeps want to split hairs, should Hung Gar stylists drop dragon techniques because dragons do not really exist? Should the type of snake be identified for a style to have legitimate snake techniques? Such discussions are silly.
    Richard A. Tolson
    https://www.patreon.com/mantismastersacademy

    There are two types of Chinese martial artists. Those who can fight and those who should be teaching dance or yoga!

    53 years of training, 43 years of teaching and still aiming for perfection!

    Recovering Forms Junkie! Even my twelve step program has four roads!

  14. #59
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    768
    Quote Originally Posted by mooyingmantis View Post
    Perhaps we should change the opening to performing the sets naked and flinging poo at the crowd. Would that be more acceptable to amateur zoologists?
    Yeah, that's what's missing!

    T

  15. #60
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    768
    Anyway, on a more serious note Gino kicked it off with some very interesting questions about Monkey styles and this is where it got to. My own interest is due to having trained monkey boxing, mantis boxing (with the obvious monkey/ape aspects), studied Chinese history and zoology. Couldn't help myself. Gino kept reinforcing the big tailless primate angle and therefore I had to point out the obvious. In all honesty, looks to me as if its if it's a modern creation from outside China. As a keen researcher I'm sure you are not far off the same conclusion.

    BT
    Last edited by B.Tunks; 10-04-2011 at 11:20 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •