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Thread: Alan Orr Wing Chun questions

  1. #1
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    Alan Orr Wing Chun questions

    Sifu Phillip Redmond
    Traditional Wing Chun Academy NYC/L.A.
    菲利普雷德蒙師傅
    傳統詠春拳學院紐約市

    WCKwoon
    wck
    sifupr

  2. #2
    If it doesn't look like Wing Chun and it's clearly not Wing Chun then why call it Wing Chun when he clearly hasn't got a clue about it?

    I'm not taking anything away from Alan Orr. He trains his guys to fight and they compete but there is no Wing Chun. Just calling things Wing Chun names and then totally changing their applications simply because he can't do it seems to be common practice these days.
    How can somebody say that Pak/jut sau is for beginners and then change how it is used? He is just punching ffs! Any idiot can punch and using your weight and hip is important in any fighting art. Cutting in with the punch is correct but not how he is doing it! I would expect my beginners to do it like that.

    Saying that SLT is for space awareness is absolutley incorrect! Alans strategy on how to apply Wing Chun in a fight is wrong. He even did a pak sau when the guy punched him but only beginners should do that????????

    The only thing I agree with in that clip is when he makes aware the guys following punch but we have a strategy to deal with that whereas most WC I have encountered do not because they are always stuck on each others arms.

    Saying that we do not take the forms into a fight is garbage! The forms are Wing Chun and show us the way to fight. We dont stand in front of somebody and start doing a form but every action has SLT/CK/MJ/BJ/CS/BJD/LDBK elements.

    Chi Sau is not for feeling your opponent out. Its a learning tool and is the most misinterpreted drill in the whole of Martail Arts.

    That is not Ving Tsun. Call it what you will and win fights with it but it is not Ving Tsun! Just call it MMA which is what it is or lets just iradicate the name Ving Tsun completely so no f***er can market it as something it's not!

    So if Alan reads this then why don't you call your style "Alan Orr's Fighting System" It works, its good it has a proven track record BUT THERE IS NO VING TSUN IN IT!!!

    Whats next? People will be calling Muay Thai Ving Tsun because it has a punch in it? Why not get a boxer to do SLT and call that Ving Tsun. Lets call Wrestling Ving Tsun because somebody has used an action that looks like Bong Sau to roll away a punch.

    GH

  3. #3

    Alan Orr

    http://www.alanorr.co.uk/htdocs/wingchun/wingchun.html

    Proper lineage but his sifu has interpreted things in a more combative way than most and thus Allan and his students can fight and win at what they do....

    Who's to say that his interpretations aren't correct or if they are proper wing chun??

    R

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by R View Post
    http://www.alanorr.co.uk/htdocs/wingchun/wingchun.html

    Proper lineage but his sifu has interpreted things in a more combative way than most and thus Allan and his students can fight and win at what they do....

    Who's to say that his interpretations aren't correct or if they are proper wing chun??

    R
    Yes thank you. How can someone else tell me what I think lol

  5. #5
    Thanks for posting the clip Phil, I always find Alan's stuff interesting. He mixes in a lot of wrestling, MT and boxing for his MMA fighters but you can often see the wing chun basis if you look with an open mind, and many of his training methods compliment the traditional stuff really well. Always nice to see another perspective.
    A clever man learns from his mistakes but a truly wise man learns from the mistakes of others.


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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Graham H View Post
    If it doesn't look like Wing Chun and it's clearly not Wing Chun then why call it Wing Chun when he clearly hasn't got a clue about it?

    I'm not taking anything away from Alan Orr. He trains his guys to fight and they compete but there is no Wing Chun. Just calling things Wing Chun names and then totally changing their applications simply because he can't do it seems to be common practice these days.
    How can somebody say that Pak/jut sau is for beginners and then change how it is used? He is just punching ffs! Any idiot can punch and using your weight and hip is important in any fighting art. Cutting in with the punch is correct but not how he is doing it! I would expect my beginners to do it like that.

    Saying that SLT is for space awareness is absolutley incorrect! Alans strategy on how to apply Wing Chun in a fight is wrong. He even did a pak sau when the guy punched him but only beginners should do that????????

    The only thing I agree with in that clip is when he makes aware the guys following punch but we have a strategy to deal with that whereas most WC I have encountered do not because they are always stuck on each others arms.

    Saying that we do not take the forms into a fight is garbage! The forms are Wing Chun and show us the way to fight. We dont stand in front of somebody and start doing a form but every action has SLT/CK/MJ/BJ/CS/BJD/LDBK elements.

    Chi Sau is not for feeling your opponent out. Its a learning tool and is the most misinterpreted drill in the whole of Martail Arts.

    That is not Ving Tsun. Call it what you will and win fights with it but it is not Ving Tsun! Just call it MMA which is what it is or lets just iradicate the name Ving Tsun completely so no f***er can market it as something it's not!

    So if Alan reads this then why don't you call your style "Alan Orr's Fighting System" It works, its good it has a proven track record BUT THERE IS NO VING TSUN IN IT!!!

    Whats next? People will be calling Muay Thai Ving Tsun because it has a punch in it? Why not get a boxer to do SLT and call that Ving Tsun. Lets call Wrestling Ving Tsun because somebody has used an action that looks like Bong Sau to roll away a punch.

    GH
    This is very funny. Just because it work does not mean its right, well yes that can hold some true if its just one person. But I have a lot of guys using Chu Sau Lei Wing Chun and they are all doing very well.

    Also if you listen rather that just rant like a fool, you would then see that I am taking about Chu Sau Lei Wing Chun and what I think about wing chun. Thats my point of view. Who the ...k are you to tell me what I think! lol

    You have your views and I have my views. Very simple.

  7. #7
    Here is a clip of a guy exchanging with another , it looks like VT , he moves like VT, he is using techniques from VT. He learned from a man considered to be a VT fighter.


    CLIP

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Orr View Post
    Yes thank you. How can someone else tell me what I think lol
    Alan, Alan, Alan...allow ME to make clear to YOU what YOU are thinking
    WC is about fighting and one fighting with WC is doing just that.
    This is what you are THINKING Alan, but you are wrong, WRONG I SAY !!!
    WC is about forms and n ot just ANY forms, but forms done in THIS way under THERE PRETENSES with NOTHING else being ACCEPTABLE !!
    WC is about Chi Sao done in the most static and impractical way possible and NO OTHER ALTERNATE WAY IS ACCEPTABLE !!

    Alan, the fact that you take your WC and make it work VS trained fighters in an environement that is as close to reality as possible means that you are NOT DOING WC !!

    In short Alan, stop being effective, stop training your guys to win and START doing WC the way it was suppose to !!!

    Your yellow silk jammies are in the mail, along with my DVD of "how to make SLT as boring and useless as possible".

    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    Alan, Alan, Alan...allow ME to make clear to YOU what YOU are thinking
    WC is about fighting and one fighting with WC is doing just that.
    This is what you are THINKING Alan, but you are wrong, WRONG I SAY !!!
    WC is about forms and n ot just ANY forms, but forms done in THIS way under THERE PRETENSES with NOTHING else being ACCEPTABLE !!
    WC is about Chi Sao done in the most static and impractical way possible and NO OTHER ALTERNATE WAY IS ACCEPTABLE !!

    Alan, the fact that you take your WC and make it work VS trained fighters in an environement that is as close to reality as possible means that you are NOT DOING WC !!

    In short Alan, stop being effective, stop training your guys to win and START doing WC the way it was suppose to !!!

    Your yellow silk jammies are in the mail, along with my DVD of "how to make SLT as boring and useless as possible".

    When would you draw the line between vt and not vt ?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    Alan, Alan, Alan...allow ME to make clear to YOU what YOU are thinking
    WC is about fighting and one fighting with WC is doing just that.
    This is what you are THINKING Alan, but you are wrong, WRONG I SAY !!!
    WC is about forms and n ot just ANY forms, but forms done in THIS way under THERE PRETENSES with NOTHING else being ACCEPTABLE !!
    WC is about Chi Sao done in the most static and impractical way possible and NO OTHER ALTERNATE WAY IS ACCEPTABLE !!

    Alan, the fact that you take your WC and make it work VS trained fighters in an environement that is as close to reality as possible means that you are NOT DOING WC !!

    In short Alan, stop being effective, stop training your guys to win and START doing WC the way it was suppose to !!!

    Your yellow silk jammies are in the mail, along with my DVD of "how to make SLT as boring and useless as possible".


    lol yes its all clear, if it works its not wing chun if it does work its vt lol

    nice post

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by wingchunIan View Post
    Thanks for posting the clip Phil, I always find Alan's stuff interesting. He mixes in a lot of wrestling, MT and boxing for his MMA fighters but you can often see the wing chun basis if you look with an open mind, and many of his training methods compliment the traditional stuff really well. Always nice to see another perspective.


    Thank you for your post, but what you saying about me is not completely correct.

    I do not mix wrestling, boxing or anything else in my wing chun.


    My stand up striking art is Chu Sau Lei Wing Chun 100%

    I am not using boxing - its CSL Chinese boxing - ie wing chun striking -wing chun skills from our wing chun training.


    When I tie up in 'training' then I may do some wrestling so my guys learn to defend the takedown and so on.

    I'm a brown belt in BJJ so it we go to the ground I have a choice of ground and pound - using my wing chun or apply BJJ and wrestling as its just training.

    Best Alan

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by k gledhill View Post
    When would you draw the line between vt and not vt ?

    Not sure what your question is as most have different ideas about what wing chun seems to be.

    For me Chu Sau Lei wing chun is an boxing art. So stand up I use my wing chun.

    On the ground I can strike with wing chun or use grappling.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by k gledhill View Post
    When would you draw the line between vt and not vt ?
    Not that MY opinion matters more than anyone elses, but it depends on what you veeiw VT as.
    Is it a system that is base don techniques? ( if so it must have a "certain look")?
    Is it a system based on principles? ( If so any technique or look is valid as long as the principles are there).
    Where do I draw the line on what is VT and what isn't?
    That would depend on WHICH VT you are referring to, no?
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Orr View Post
    Not sure what your question is as most have different ideas about what wing chun seems to be.

    For me Chu Sau Lei wing chun is an boxing art. So stand up I use my wing chun.

    On the ground I can strike with wing chun or use grappling.
    Did you watch the clip I posted ? any opinion you care to share about it ?

    Do you see VT techniques, concepts, tactics being used or not ?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    Not that MY opinion matters more than anyone elses, but it depends on what you veeiw VT as.
    Is it a system that is base don techniques? ( if so it must have a "certain look")?
    Is it a system based on principles? ( If so any technique or look is valid as long as the principles are there).
    Where do I draw the line on what is VT and what isn't?
    That would depend on WHICH VT you are referring to, no?
    You know what I am asking.

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