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Thread: oldest style of mantis around

  1. #46
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    North Canton, OH
    Liang Xuexiang (1810-1895) wrote about:
    Luanjie (chaotically connected) which later became known as Lanjie (intercepting)
    Ba Zhou (eight elbows) which refers to short striking methods
    Beng Bu (crash and fill) which later became know as Beng Bu (crashing step)

    He is also credited by some with creating the six part Zhaiyao series. Some believe his student Jiang Hualong altered Zhaiyao and added a seventh section that focused on ground fighting.

    Jiang Hualong and/or Song Zide created Meihua Lu. They also created a new Beng Bu passed down through the Taji Tanglanquan/Cui Shoushan line.

    Mainland Seven Star has versions of each of these forms. They are fairly similar to the Plum Flower versions.

    Hong Kong Seven Star forms are quite different from their Plum Flower counterparts.

    As an aside, the Beng Bu of Qixing, Taiji, Taichi, Meihua and Taijimeihua Tanglang all share about 12 of the same moves, then depart from one another.
    Last edited by mooyingmantis; 08-07-2015 at 03:03 PM.
    Richard A. Tolson

    There are two types of Chinese martial artists. Those who can fight and those who should be teaching dance or yoga!

    53 years of training, 43 years of teaching and still aiming for perfection!

    Recovering Forms Junkie! Even my twelve step program has four roads!

  2. #47
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Shanghai, China
    Quote Originally Posted by LaterthanNever View Post
    As always..thank you all for your input!

    Yes, Master Brazier mentioned to me once that a more interesting question to ask is not what the "oldest" style was, but the oldest *form* was/is(I am paraphrasing here Master Brazier so if I am taking your comment out of context, I apologize). Some have said the first documented form was Lan Jie and others say it was Bung Bu. Master Stuart Alve Olson says in his book that the earliest know style of manti was "Lan Jie praying mantis", which I found both interesting(and a bit confusing). Am I to understand that forms back then were considered separate styles in and of themselves?

    As for me, I am an 8 step(Ba Bu) practitioner. Some has said that the late GM Wei did not learn Lan Jie since it is not a form in the 8 step curriculum. My thoughts are that his teacher GM Feng Huan Yi(who was a high level Ying Jow practitioner) learned it as "Jeet Kune" (Jie/Jeet same word). I believe that the form is the same though perhaps was modified when Lan Jie was conceived.

    Apologies for my ignorance..was Lin Tan Fang a 7 star of PB practitioner? Thank you.
    I've read Stuart Alve Olson's book. In my opinion he makes some wild conclusions based on some sketchy research. He tries to suggest Wang Lang and Zhang San Feng are the same people, and Taiji and Mantis are essentially the same style that descended differently, just coz of similar stories involving watching animals fighting. He goes on to list all these branches of Mantis which I highly doubt ever existed in Shandong. He also has some very sketchy explanations for things like 7 long 8 short.

    Also, I believe Jeet Kune is a form taken from the Jingwu curriculum, but maybe Im wrong?

  3. #48
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    out there fer sure
    "He tries to suggest Wang Lang and Zhang San Feng are the same people,"

    I must have missed that..interesting

    "Also, I believe Jeet Kune is a form taken from the Jingwu curriculum, but maybe Im wrong? "

    Possible. Though I believe the core Jing Wu sets were sort of absorbed from the styles which were taught under one roof(so to speak)?

  4. #49
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Shanghai, China
    You are right.... Jingwu was a bunch of different styles taught under one roof... but everybody had to learn Mizong Quan sets first I believe, which is why HK Mantis has so many long fist sets in their curriculum compared to Shandong styles

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