Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 19

Thread: Wu Xing Ba Fa

  1. #1

    Wu Xing Ba Fa

    I learned a form from my Shifu, he only called it "Tiger"...I never thought to ask him the Chinese name; now I've been out of contact with him for several years.

    The form seems to be a modern Songshan form. I found some versions on youtube, it is usually called Wu Xing Ba Fa. I wonder if there isn't another name for the form, because Wu Xing Ba Fa (5 animals, 8 methods), doesn't make sense. It is all based on Tiger.

    Also the form is the same as the Songshan Wu Xing Ba Fa, except instead of the 5 animal hand techniques it only uses Tiger techniques, besides that the structure is basically identical.

    So that makes me wonder, did someone just take the 5 animals version of WXBF and change it all to Tiger Claws to have a "Tiger" form? Or was this the original form and the other 4 animals added to create a 5 animals form?

    Does the Tiger version have a poem? I remember Shifu referring to one move as "Tiger breaks ropes," but I don't know if there is a proper poem. Do any of you guys know this form? What's the reason for WXBF and an identical form with just Tiger?

    There are several versions of both forms on youtube. There used to be a clip of Shi De Cheng doing the Tiger version, but that got taken down. This video has someone doing the form, along with a little video of Shi De Cheng doing it in the corner.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaGFy8MBaDY

    This is very close to the version I learned, but we did a few extra moves at the end, finishing in "Hero in a Horse Stance."

    Enlighten me.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Columbia, MO
    Posts
    809
    Wuxing Bafa as done at Shaolin is an incredibly shortened form of a traditional Wuxing Bafa. I have no idea on its relation to Shaolin or why it's practiced at Shaolin. The traditional Wuxing Bafa is a long taolu and is a complete system unto itself.

    Here is a version:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THUl6...eature=related

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by pazman View Post
    Wuxing Bafa as done at Shaolin is an incredibly shortened form of a traditional Wuxing Bafa. I have no idea on its relation to Shaolin or why it's practiced at Shaolin. The traditional Wuxing Bafa is a long taolu and is a complete system unto itself.

    Here is a version:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THUl6...eature=related
    Your right, very easy to see how Shaolin WXBF was taken from this and condensed.
    I like the long version...

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Fremont, CA, U.S.A.
    Posts
    44,261

    The modern version by Shi Decheng

    We published a photo essay of the modern form in our Shaolin Special 2007: Shaolin 5 Animals Demonstrated by Shaolin Monk Shi Decheng. Most sources feel that this is a modern form, but it's still amusing. I learned it back then when I wrote that article, but I let it go. The quanpu are published in that article in English and Chinese. Here is the English, which I can retrieve easily from the original article draft. The Chinese is too troublesome to get because that was in the layout. If you want that, you'll just have to get the issue.

    1. Stand Upright, Salute
    2. Two Tigers Fight Mightily
    3. Leopard Checks the Path
    4. Black Tiger Snatches the Heart
    5. Fierce Tiger Shoves the Mountain
    6. Foot Stomps like a Hammer
    7. Fierce Tiger Stands Mightily
    8. Gold Dragon Spreads its Claws
    9. Black Dragon Shakes its Tail
    10. Two Dragons Tease the Pearl
    11. Black Tiger Flies Through the Forest
    12. Sparrow Turns its Body
    13. Five Claws Check from Above
    14. White Snake Checks the Path
    15. White Snake Single Flight
    16. Two Dragons Emerge from the Sea
    17. Gold Leopard Beats the Stone
    18. Leopard Flies Through the Forest
    19. Two Brothers Carry the Mountain
    20. Fierce Tiger Turns its Head Backwards
    21. White Crane Searches for Food
    22. Sit on the Mountain, Watch the Battlefield
    23. Stand Upright, Salute
    24. Ending Posture
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by GeneChing View Post
    We published a photo essay of the modern form in our Shaolin Special 2007: Shaolin 5 Animals Demonstrated by Shaolin Monk Shi Decheng. Most sources feel that this is a modern form, but it's still amusing. I learned it back then when I wrote that article, but I let it go. The quanpu are published in that article in English and Chinese. Here is the English, which I can retrieve easily from the original article draft. The Chinese is too troublesome to get because that was in the layout. If you want that, you'll just have to get the issue.
    Thanks a lot Gene! I really appreciate it!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Columbia, MO
    Posts
    809
    I would be very surprised if the Wuxingbafa practiced in Dengfeng now had been a part of traditional Shaolin. If I'm not mistaken, there was a Five Animals style practiced in Ming Dynasty, but that is either lost to history or integrated somehow into the forms we have now. That might be what you are referring to, Shemmati. I learned Shi Decheng's Wuxingbafa in an afternoon and spent the next few days doing partner drills from it. It's a cool little form that I think would be fun for kids but doesn't really fit in with the other things you learn in traditional Songshan Shaolin.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    ᏌᏂᎭᎢ, ᏥᎾ
    Posts
    3,257
    I wouldn't go that far with it! I don't think this is a great set, and I'm not personally a fan of this series. First of all, the traditional sets are done very sloppily, but many others look made up just for the VCDs yet purposefully made to look traditional by drawing from several traditional sets, like RDH noted with the stick set in the other thread. This set looks to be the same thing to me.

    We know different eras for Luohanquan, Bai Yufeng's "5 fists", and Ji Longfeng's "rooster". This set combines clear postures and sequences from them just as they are done today but lacks any real logic or depth overall.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    ᏌᏂᎭᎢ, ᏥᎾ
    Posts
    3,257
    Most animal styles associated with Shaolin are ultimately attributed to Bai Yufeng from the late Ming Dynasty, who along with monk Jueyuan developed a system called Wuquan (five fists). This incorporated the classic five animals (dragon, tiger, leopard, snake, crane), but also drew from the older material in Shaolin at the time, such as Hongquan, Rouquan, and most importantly other Neigong material.

    Students of Bai Yufeng, Jueyuan, and old man Li (Li Sou, who brought another Hongquan, stick fighting, and qinna material to Shaolin) who practiced this Wuquan divided into several different branches which spread to different areas in China. Shaolin eventually lost the sets, but got some back in the 1980's and many of these are recorded in the Shaolin Encyclopedia. However, only the dragon, tiger, leopard, and snake sets still exist, while the crane is lost. It may have spread to places like Fujian where they practice crane styles and have connections to Shaolin.

    One branch came from Yi Guan who was a student of Bai Yufeng and Jueyuan and travelled south where he crossed with a Ming general surnamed Cai (Canto: Choi) who was an uncle of the Ming emperor, and became the founder of Caijiaquan (Choi-ga-kyun) and influenced Cailifo (Choi-lei-faht).

    These southern animal styles preserve the Wuquan material, but their sets have of course changed over time to fit with existing principles of local southern styles. But they may still be a good look at what the original Shaolin five animals were like.

    The Wuquan material mixed with or to create still many other well-known styles, in Shaolin and throughout China. Wuxing Bafa comes from another branch that merged their five animals sets and do one very long set. Shaolin now does an abridged version of this.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    ᏌᏂᎭᎢ, ᏥᎾ
    Posts
    3,257
    Quote Originally Posted by SHemmati View Post
    website chinafrominside.com writes in description of Qin Qing Feng's WuXing BaFa videos that:

    "Shaolin Five Animals Eight Methods Boxing was created in 17th century by merging famous Shaolin Five Animals (Dragon, Tiger, Leopard, Snake and Crane) Boxing with Large Vajra Boxing (Da Jingang Quan). For centuries it has been transmitted only within Qin family and has preserved the essence of traditional Northern Shaolin martial arts."

    these exactly confirm what you said about WuXing BaFa LFJ. albeit i'm skeptical the rest of Qin Qing Feng's claim that WuXing BaFa is only a substyle of Da Jingang quan and that its main inheritor is Qin Qing Feng's family. since many people know WuXing BaFa and its strange if only Qin family has made and preserved it. but these don't matter for me, because WuXing BaFa is far from Shaolin kung fu spirit and principles and i've given up studying it since years ago!
    There was another branch that is sometimes called Jingangquan which preserved a serious of animal sets and has a very long 13 Claws set, but this is a separate branch from the Wuxingbafa.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    I learned a form from my Shifu, he only called it "Tiger"...I never thought to ask him the Chinese name; now I've been out of contact with him for several years.

    The form seems to be a modern Songshan form. I found some versions on youtube, it is usually called Wu Xing Ba Fa. I wonder if there isn't another name for the form, because Wu Xing Ba Fa (5 animals, 8 methods), doesn't make sense. It is all based on Tiger.

    Also the form is the same as the Songshan Wu Xing Ba Fa, except instead of the 5 animal hand techniques it only uses Tiger techniques, besides that the structure is basically identical.

    So that makes me wonder, did someone just take the 5 animals version of WXBF and change it all to Tiger Claws to have a "Tiger" form? Or was this the original form and the other 4 animals added to create a 5 animals form?

    Does the Tiger version have a poem? I remember Shifu referring to one move as "Tiger breaks ropes," but I don't know if there is a proper poem. Do any of you guys know this form? What's the reason for WXBF and an identical form with just Tiger?

    There are several versions of both forms on youtube. There used to be a clip of Shi De Cheng doing the Tiger version, but that got taken down. This video has someone doing the form, along with a little video of Shi De Cheng doing it in the corner.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaGFy8MBaDY

    This is very close to the version I learned, but we did a few extra moves at the end, finishing in "Hero in a Horse Stance."

    Enlighten me.
    This looks like the beginning of the form I learned. The version I was taught is over 3 mins long.
    i'm nobody...i'm nobody. i'm a tramp, a bum, a hobo... a boxcar and a jug of wine... but i'm a straight razor if you get to close to me.

    -Charles Manson

    I will punch, kick, choke, throw or joint manipulate any nationality equally without predjudice.

    - Shonie Carter

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by pazman View Post
    Wuxing Bafa as done at Shaolin is an incredibly shortened form of a traditional Wuxing Bafa. I have no idea on its relation to Shaolin or why it's practiced at Shaolin. The traditional Wuxing Bafa is a long taolu and is a complete system unto itself.

    Here is a version:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THUl6...eature=related
    This is the one. Learning it sucked...
    i'm nobody...i'm nobody. i'm a tramp, a bum, a hobo... a boxcar and a jug of wine... but i'm a straight razor if you get to close to me.

    -Charles Manson

    I will punch, kick, choke, throw or joint manipulate any nationality equally without predjudice.

    - Shonie Carter

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    DengFeng
    Posts
    1,469
    Interestingly this form also has a 108 move version.

    Much longer than the long version even. The one he does in his instructional vcd, there is a longer one still. Has many more repeated movements and a better symmetry, though I suspect it is a little too long to be 'performed', I would kind of like to know this version for completeion;

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIJ3ovaZnr4

    The performance is somewhere. It looks about the same but if you concentrate you can see it is a much longer version than his later Vcd.

  13. #13
    My Shaolin Kung Fu master in Greece is a Shaolin Monk from Dengfeng.His Name is Shi Miao Dian.He is a student of Shi Heng Jun.He told me that there are 18 different Wuxing Bafa forms existing.I know 3 different forms.One is the common form that knows everyone, the second is a form that shows Shi de Yang at the end of a Dvd from him with his students.I think it is the Basics of Shaolin Dvd.This form is called Nanyuan Wuxing Bafa and includes Crane, Tiger, Leopard, Snake and representative for the Dragon are Mantis and Eagle together.There is no real Dragon existing.But this 2 Animals represent the Dragon because the Dragon is a philosophical Animal and not a true Animal.And the 3rd form that i know is that form that you have posted here with a link from youtube with the Name Wuxing Quan.The Dragon begins the Movements.But there are also Mantis and Eagle incoporated.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Sichuan, China
    Posts
    106
    Historical accuracy on these kinds of things is pretty much a pipe dream. WuXingQuan as I learned is one of the original two systems taught at Shaolin and it's roots are about 1500 years old. That's as much history as I've ever gotten from a monk. It's always surprising when I see people posting these long factoids about this stuff.

    WuXingBaFa that DeCheng is doing is the demo version and represents about the first half of the form I learned.

    As ever, each monk teaching it will change moves as he sees fit but you can almost always recognize the form. I learned it one way and then a year down the line my teacher changed a couple of the moves. I assume it was to look better. Also, if you demonstrate good skill with the form, he would do things like replace the low sweep kick with a three kick combo- spinning sweep kick, spinning hook kick, jump spin hook-kick. It's at that halfway point so the cardio requirements for the form jump up dramatically.

    I was fortunate enough to be able to learn/afford the form privately so I learned all of the applications for the moves. It's worth investing in.

    If your teacher is incorporating Mantis and Eagle it's definitely for modern flavor but that's ok, because who doesn't want to learn those styles? heheh

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    phoenix, az
    Posts
    302
    I do the shortened modern version of the form. I wouldn't say i'm a fan of the form but it did draw my interest towards 5 animals again so I wouldn't call it a complete waste

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •