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Thread: No Style

  1. #1
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    No Style

    Why can we train like this - no style? Your thought?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsLkqwQrCS8
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 11-22-2012 at 10:27 PM.
    http://johnswang.com

    More opinion -> more argument
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    No opinion -> no argument

  2. #2
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    If we think in terms of having 2 arms and 2 legs, do we really need to think about style at all?

    What is style? What does it mean? Is it more than one person's idea or interpretation of their experiences? Or preferences?

    I liked the clip John - really nice. I really wish I could have learnt the shuai techniques in CLF and taiji, but I don't think my teachers understood them. You only get so far trying to reverse engineer things yourself.

    By the way - the real question is

    Why can't we all wear police uniforms?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    Why can we train like this - no style? Your thought?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsLkqwQrCS8
    This "NO STYLE" is a style in itself. It looks like it is a style used by Chinese Police.

    ginosifu

  4. #4
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    World English Dictionary
    style (staɪl)

    — n
    1. a form of appearance, design, or production; type or make: a new style of house
    2. the way in which something is done: good or bad style
    3. the manner in which something is expressed or performed, considered as separate from its intrinsic content, meaning, etc
    4. a distinctive, formal, or characteristic manner of expression in words, music, painting, etc
    5. elegance or refinement of manners, dress, etc
    6. prevailing fashion in dress, looks, etc
    7. a fashionable or ostentatious mode of existence: to live in style
    8. the particular mode of orthography, punctuation, design, etc, followed in a book, journal, etc, or in a printing or publishing house
    9. chiefly ( Brit ) the distinguishing title or form of address of a person or firm
    10. botany the stalk of a carpel, bearing the stigma
    11. zoology a slender pointed structure, such as the piercing mouthparts of certain insects
    12. Old Style See New Style a method of expressing or calculating dates
    13. another word for stylus
    14. the arm of a sundial


    In short, everything we do has a style.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  5. #5
    Some like cha cha. Some like salsa.

    Some like jazz. Some like blues.

    Some like country. Some like rock and roll.

    Preferred methods.

    People like to group or categorize things and ways of doing things.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    Why can we train like this - no style? Your thought?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsLkqwQrCS8
    Nice video.

    But doesn't every kung fu have this? Style is not just the technique, but also how you setup and execute the techniques.

    That said, the demo has a very strong look of Zhao Da Yun's stuff that he shows in his book.

    http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Chin...ctical+chin+na

    Especially the tight contact and leg and body control in how they execute. Very different from Yang Jwing Ming, for example.

    ZDY has background in Ba Gua, and trained the police. Is that his Ba Gua showing through?

  7. #7
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    That clip shows "no style". When people talk about styles, they should do the same techniques in that clip and see if their bodies can do it any differently.

    If you get a train partner, you and your training partnet drills 8 techniques from that clip 100 times daily, can you digest all the information in that clip within 6 month?
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 11-23-2012 at 01:24 PM.
    http://johnswang.com

    More opinion -> more argument
    Less opinion -> less argument
    No opinion -> no argument

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    If you get a train partner, you and your training partnet drills 8 techniques from that clip 100 times daily, can you digest all the information in that clip within 6 month?
    Good start, but probably will still be finding out new things after 6 months.

    When my teacher had us start work on kicking more, he had us pair up and do circling and pivoting steps, and only shin kicks. We had to do that for many weeks.

  9. #9
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    To just master the hip throw may take more than 6 months. After 6 months, one should feel that he owns the techniques. Whether he can make it work in combat depend on how hard that he may try.

    You don't have to spend 5 years in solo form training and wait for you zhoutian to be open before you can drill combat techniques with your partner.
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 11-23-2012 at 01:34 PM.
    http://johnswang.com

    More opinion -> more argument
    Less opinion -> less argument
    No opinion -> no argument

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    To just master the hip throw may take more than 6 months. After 6 months, one should feel that he owns the techniques. Whether he can make it work in combat depend on how hard that he may try.

    You don't have to spend 5 years in solo form training and wait for you zhoutian to be open before you can drill combat techniques with your partner.
    Agreed on both points.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    That clip shows "no style". When people talk about styles, they should do the same techniques in that clip and see if their bodies can do it any differently.
    There can be style differences in the details of execution.

    Compare to YJM, for example.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7hAN...ture=endscreen

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5iNc...feature=relmfu

    The police version shows more continuos transfer of control points back and forth from hand, arm, torso, hip, and knees. Also more spiraling combined with dropping straight lines.

    Same techniques from my teacher would show more short relaxed snapping reversals and waist short force and monkey step coordinated with the breaks.

    Same basic techniques but minor style variation in execution. And of course, Praying Mantis for setup.

  12. #12
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    Here is a good example between "style" and "no style". In YJM's clip at 0.48,

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7hAN...ture=endscreen

    if his right hand lock on his own left arm or his opponent's right arm, he can take his opponent's down by that "elbow lock". Because he tries to express "style flavor", his right hand move toward his opponent's throat instead. He then tried to demo how Taiji moves can be used in combat.

    YJM tried to map Taiji into combat. To me, that's extra burden. I prefer to train combat skill from day 1 without having to worry about style flavor but direct effectness.
    http://johnswang.com

    More opinion -> more argument
    Less opinion -> less argument
    No opinion -> no argument

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post

    YJM tried to map Taiji into combat. To me, that's extra burden. I prefer to train combat skill from day 1 without having to worry about style flavor but direct effectness.
    he tries to map taiji push hands into combat. taijiquan is chen village hong quan. theres no burden.

    25th generation inner door disciple of Chen Style Practical Wombat Method
    Officially certified by Ethiopian Orthodox patriarch Abune Mathias
    grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat™®LLC Practical Wombat Method. international academy retreat

  14. #14
    I'm a B-Boy and I used to teach at a dance center in my town. We would get adults and kids. At first it was a small class and a friend of mine was running it. As it grew and more young kids came he needed to separate the class into a teen/adult class and a kids class. I took over the kids class for a while. When I would teach, I taught all the moves I'm sure you've all seen. Because they were so young we focused on standup and when they got the UpRock down, then we would teach them how to throw down. UpRock is probably the aspect of the dance that has the most unique and individual flavor because of the sheer amount of options. Anyways, I taught the moves but encouraged my kids to develop their own style and not to just do exactly what I do. At first they had to do it my way to get the timing and the positioning right. But once they got that down, I was all about having them experiment with it and develop their own distinct versions of the dance as a whole.

    My point is that when it comes to style and flavor, it really is about the individual. Ofcourse you have to emulate your teachers to get the moves right, but once you are proficient I encourage people to do a lil self searching and variation in order to find the best way to execute the moves while maintaining the basic fundamentals. I use this in all aspects of life. Whether I'm prototyping an electronic device, spinning on my head or drilling MA's.

    It doesn't work for you, you work for it in order to make it work for you. Know what I mean?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    Why can we train like this - no style? Your thought?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsLkqwQrCS8
    That's awesome, John.

    Anyone who grapples knows that the video showed effective techniques, for the most part. To me, it's about what works. I've never felt the need to stay true to any one style. I respect my CMA Sifu and I will leave my own ideas at the door when I am taking instruction. But on the street, you will never see me drop into a stance and wait to be attacked. I move a lot. I'm not a big guy, my strong point is speed and agility. As an acrobat and a BBoy, I learned that finesse was my forte, not brute force.

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