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Thread: Parying Mantis

  1. #1
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    Parying Mantis

    I just made some clips from one of my praying mantis VHS collection. There are some combo drills training that I like.

    What's your opinion on this kind of training?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEwDBCv41rQ

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3KpIemRAU8

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6BeL5jtoy8

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=b-Ut84YyI98
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 04-17-2013 at 04:10 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Ok for warmup.

    Would like to see more speed and agility in the hands and the stepping, and more explosive power in the attacks even for warmup.

    Then I would want to some serious/realistic partner practice usng the techniques.

    Also the two person punching/parrying was too slow and rigid for my preferences.

  3. #3
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    We learned something similar to the ideas in the clips you showed but it was more formerly organized

    I am certain that you are familar with Su Yu Zhang of Taiwan. When we learned praying mantis in the 1980s, my teacher, Tony Yang, patterned much of his teaching from the way Su Yu Zhang taught him praying mantis.

    Before any forms were learned, each student had to learn single moving postures/movements. The first set contained 6 moving postures from various praying mantis forms including 8 step, 7 star, mei hua. Each posture had a part B which the opponent could play so you immediately were doing two person drills. There were two additional sets of 6 movements which also included postures and movement from 6 harmony etc. etc..

    In addition to these, you also learned a routine of kicks, both in place and moving, along with holding stance training [praying mantis stances].

    Also learned to punch and kick padded boards.

    Then came the first form--7 hand from the 8 step praying mantis system and this included the B side which made it a two person drill.

    During the summers, we would perform these drills and exercises going up and down a 75 foot yard.

    Had limited appreciation of what we were doing but looking back, it was a treasure chest of great material.

    The training was similar to the following:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50D7H-weVns

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xz-Dy...534BF0FC19E801


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB7Wv...0TrUlg&index=6
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  4. #4
    I wouldn't call it training perse' more just forms speed drills and excersizes, but being a mantis practitioner I will say I have not come across any style I like better or have found more efficient than mantis. It uses agility speed and precision to over come our opponents.

    perhaps the biggest improvement in mantis was the integration of bagua footwork from Chiang Hua Long, many styles of mantis lack solid maneuverable footwork and thus gave mantis's superior upper exrtremities a disadvantage, but with 8 step its a perfect fit for upper and lower to efficient combined cordination
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by EarthDragon View Post
    I will say I have not come across any style I like better or have found more efficient than mantis.
    I feel the same way too. PM is the style that doesn't hide anything. It's WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get).
    http://johnswang.com

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  6. #6
    1. I learned praying mantis at first.

    I was fast with both hand and leg moves.

    However, my root structures were loose.

    2 . I was directed to learn Ba Ji and Tong bei.

    Ba Ji for good foundation with stepping and rooting.

    Tong bei for fast and flexible whole arms movement and fast stepping methods.

    3. I came back to praying mantis.

    My mantis was influenced strongly by Ba Ji and Tong bei.


  7. #7
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    Old kung fu videos are so cool

    Really, though, human fighting doesn't look like a praying mantis. Those may be some cool exercises but probably have very limited use in combat.

    The exercise in the 3rd video looks like it's going to develop the habit of backing away from punches.
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    Praying Mantis kung fu doesn't mimic

    Praying Mantis kung fu shouldn't mimic the mantis. The only thing that "mimics" is the hook hands. Other than that, the aggressiveness and spirit of the mantis is what is emulated.

    Cheers,
    Josh

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronFist View Post
    The exercise in the 3rd video looks like it's going to develop the habit of backing away from punches.
    I particularly don't like that 3rd one. Maybe I could see students doing that if it was their first month in class.

    I would modify the routine so that it isn't purely defensive, and the footwork to be not so dead.

    The 2 punches should be a fast 1-2.

    The person parrying should shift back with a quick double parry.

    As his weight starts to transfer to the back foot, he should rebound forward to attack down the centerline with a fast 1-2.

    Then the other person shifts back to parry/attack.

    This will train the aggressive reflex, as well as the Mantis concept of swallow and spit back.

    Parry, rebound, attack should be less that 1/2 second overall.

    If you really want to be Mantis, the routine should add a groin kick after the high line attack.

  10. #10
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    Hook hands is not a natural human fighting movement.
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  11. #11
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    It's just a grab

    Quote Originally Posted by IronFist View Post
    Hook hands is not a natural human fighting movement.
    Like a lot of martial arts that grab and pull, that's all the "mantis hook" essentially is. It's not like we wave our hands around while we fight continuously displaying the hook hands.

  12. #12
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    The MT "double neck tie" is called "mantis arms" in TCMA. You use both hands to hook behind your opponent's neck and your forearms control your opponent's chest.
    http://johnswang.com

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  13. #13
    1. People tend to focus on forearm movement.

    However, our foreleg (lower leg) movement is also important.

    Step on one leg and hook up or kick with the other leg etc

    We used to practice leg drills on the dirt ground. We left behind stomp prints and swiping prints all the time.

    2. There are major differences between Gou and Diao Shou.

    3. We may also use hook hands to deliver wrist strikes upward, forward, downward, upward, inward, vertically and horizontally.

    More functions than just grabbing or hooking.

    --


  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    The MT "double neck tie" is called "mantis arms" in TCMA. You use both hands to hook behind your opponent's neck and your forearms control your opponent's chest.
    I don't study Mantis, but I've adopted the mantis hooks for entering the Thai clinch. They work well even with boxing gloves, the hand shape may not be exatcly the same but the concept is.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

  15. #15
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    The "mantis arms" is used commonly in Chinese wrestling.

    http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/9705/mantishands.jpg
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 04-19-2013 at 05:13 PM.
    http://johnswang.com

    More opinion -> more argument
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