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Thread: Actual boxing techniques

  1. #31
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    Well if you try to adapt your WC to boxing rules. You will be at big disadvantage. Boxing doesn't use forward pressure or forward springy force...So the whole moving in constantly putting pressure on your opponent would be seen as pushing them back and not allowing them strike. The key in WC is aggressively attacking and controlling. With Boxing gloves you will find the controlling aspect to be nullified alot except for your occasional bong sau and adapted pak or tan sau...But all in all. The major principle of forward pressure and sticking and moving into your opponent space an attacking their balance is a big no no in Boxing rules. Basically you want to stick and move, circle around your opponent, an fade away. all the while timing him for a haymaker jaw breaker. If thats your training in boxing.

    AS for taking an hit with outsparring. I don't really know? There are other drills WE do where you practice defending with one hand...Which in turn you will get hit alot at first, Blind fold techinque chi sau....an Actual contact chi sau...But again its not Sparring. So you will be at a disadvantage if you free spar with someone of another style. I just recently last year sparred with some wing chun guys from another lineage...MOST of WC training i have always sparred boxers, Muay Thai, and Karate and street fighters....I found sparring the WC guys was different since i was a guess an was basically trying to be passive an let them dominate.

    I found that most had no idea outside of chi sau how to spar. At first I started dominating but when i realize it was just me hitting an them getting hit...I stop that s%#* and let them attack. Purely NO aggression at all. Save the instructors who actually could bring the scoion...The Instruters would spar you hard...But the students had no idea how to spar or even kick or deal with kicks. So I tried not to really kick. I just threw BS punches and BS kicks if i ever did kick to not offend anyone...


    But My training is different than most...We learn how to get hit from the very beginning from sparring lightly then medium force...Free sparring is the best...The MORE WC you learn the more you can refine your sparring an incorporate more WC.

    In short Chi Sau is cool like doing first form or partner drills. But in reality when you show your skill against a non-wing chun guy you want your Sparring to be better than your chi sau...just my two cents.


    In actual free sparring where you can utlize your WC techniques to the fullest...You shouldnt allow the boxer to throw a hook or an upper cut...Upon bridging the gap you should continously jam his space, keep forward pressure on, keep driving in aggressively and relentless attacking as you deflect and control any bridge he presents as defensive guard or attack. He should at all times be backstepping from the pressure or up against a wall covering up attempting to weave where you utilize either po pai and chain punch to distrupt his weaving and bobbing and structure or you control his centre by grabbing the head or neck to strike simultaneously...

    but againt what do I know...Im one of the least liked on the fourm!!!



    Quote Originally Posted by LoneTiger108 View Post
    Ahhh! the 'reality' check for anyone wishing to train Martial Arts.

    Thing is, how do you train 'to take a hit'? Without the sparring?

    I only ask because this forum is getting so lame and tiresome I thought I would go way back to the roots of our Art... which isn't western pugilism!
    The Flow is relentless like a raging ocean with crashing waves devasting anything in its path.

    "Kick Like Thunder, Strike Like Lighting, Fist Hard as Stones."

    "Wing Chun flows around overwhelming force and finds openings with its constant flow of forward energy."

    "Always Attack, Be Aggressive always Attack first, Be Relentless. Continue with out ceasing. Flow Like Water, Move like the wind, Attack Like Fire. Consume and overwhelm your Adversary until he is No More"

  2. #32

    Actual boxing techniques

    Quote Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
    Hi All

    As a somewhat frustrated boxer-Mt-WCer, i see people putting up threads like "defense against hook", "how to deal with a boxer" etc etc

    I wouldnt mind but the boxing "techniques", to be generous in description, are bad at best.

    So here is a clip of a website showing actual boxing techniques, footwork and so on

    http://www.myboxingcoach.com/... its very good

    So, before putting up your anti-boxing move, have a look here and see if you are REALLY training against a boxer.......... not some guy pretending to be

    Oh, and how do you make this a sticky???
    GlennR , boxing is good , but it all depends on how good the WC man is with his own WC skills . If the boxer knows when to move in and when to move out to avoid getting hit by the WC man then he ' ll be a challenge to the WC man . But realistically , boxing you have all the punches you need to knock out a person or really hurt the person . But you can ' t use elbows or kicks like WC people could . MT you can use the same type of punches as western boxing uses and you can use elbows and kicks , but you ' re limited by striking arsenals .

    WC you can use straight direct vertical fist punches , backfist , and loaded with different striking techniques , and the blocks to really cover your upper and lower body areas .

    Now I ' m not putting down boxing or MT and backing up WC , I ' m just saying what boxing and MT can do and can ' t do .

    Unless the boxer or MT fighter can really tailor his or her skills to the way WC people would fight , then they can give the WC people the challenge of their life .
    If the boxer had really strong and powerful type of punches or hooks , and if the boxer can move into the WC people without getting kicked then he can hurt the WC man , but the WC man can inturn block those boxing punches and still give the boxer a challenge , so it works both ways . But overall to me it really depends on how good the WC , boxer , MT is with their skills in general . This is just me .

  3. #33

    Head movement

    A great clip showing some head slipping, bobbing etc ....
    http://youtu.be/qSX0PCQXiO4

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by k gledhill View Post
    A great clip showing some head slipping, bobbing etc ....
    http://youtu.be/qSX0PCQXiO4
    Pretty good Kev, shows you how good evasion is difficult to deal with

    Here's a clip of Willy Pep, id say the most evasive/defensive fighter in history

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huZC1RWe5KE

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
    Pretty good Kev, shows you how good evasion is difficult to deal with

    Here's a clip of Willy Pep, id say the most evasive/defensive fighter in history

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huZC1RWe5KE
    Yeah, he makes it look easy. Good clip too. Some moves are obviously not mma friendly. I like to get my students used to this simple counter head to our punching entry slip, so they don't " squirrel ! " if they miss ; ) using certain techniques we do what boxers can't , like chase the head with the extended arm rather than retract and allow the head to recover.
    http://youtu.be/M72H7q2iabM

  6. #36
    hmmm my "anti-boxing" technique seems simpler than some mentioned...kick the s*** out of their legs?

    i would NEVER try to block or counter a boxer! lol
    I guess we are who we are

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by k gledhill View Post
    Yeah, he makes it look easy. Good clip too. Some moves are obviously not mma friendly. I like to get my students used to this simple counter head to our punching entry slip, so they don't " squirrel ! " if they miss ; ) using certain techniques we do what boxers can't , like chase the head with the extended arm rather than retract and allow the head to recover.
    http://youtu.be/M72H7q2iabM
    Wow. First time I saw the WSL clip. So to sum up WSL's message:

    1. Street vs. Sport
    2. 1 inch punch
    3. Hands are faster than the head.

    Pretty shaky ground there. The street vs. sport argument is pretty well over, even though many traditionalists doggedly refuse to acknowledge this. And LOL at a 1 inch punch from an extended position after the opponent slips the punch. And complete misunderstanding of #3 from a boxing perspective. You don't move the head because it's faster than hands, it is a combination of what targets are left open by your fighting stance and a very efficient movement of the head to slip to cause your opponent to use more energy than you and to open them up and extend them for a counter punch.

    Now that I'm done with the blasphemy paragraph, let's move on.

    Nice Willie Pep clip. Yes his head movement down by his opponent's knees are exploiting the rules of boxing and would get him in trouble in mma or self defense. But I'll bet the list of people on this forum that could actually hit Willie is pretty small. Even if he is 85 now.

    As far as doing what boxers can't, the standard MT response to a slipped punch and an extended arm is grab the head and knee to the body. That sure holds up better than a 1 inch punch there. And there are other options in the clinch realm too.

    So what is WCK's answer to the boxing opponent whose head bobs around all the time? Centerline, baby, centerline. And center of mass. Drive a freight train right through the sternum while watching them bob for apples. Don't try to strike the head as it's the exact same thing as chasing hands. Chase center. You know, kind of like PB's right hand was doing to everyone on the seminar clips.

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    hmmm my "anti-boxing" technique seems simpler than some mentioned...kick the s*** out of their legs?

    i would NEVER try to block or counter a boxer! lol
    There's a simpler solution shown by Randy Couture vs. James Toney.

    Low single to mount. Boxers can't punch very well off their backs.

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Wayfaring View Post
    Wow. First time I saw the WSL clip. So to sum up WSL's message:

    1. Street vs. Sport
    2. 1 inch punch
    3. Hands are faster than the head.

    Pretty shaky ground there. The street vs. sport argument is pretty well over, even though many traditionalists doggedly refuse to acknowledge this.
    There is an important difference between street v sport but not in the way most people say as in what they practice is too deadly for sport. What works in the street is usually much more simple in strategy tactics and technique. This is because what you face on the street are untrained people who have not developed sophistication and what they do on the street is very limited. Street is play ground fighting versus sport golden glove and beyond. This is why you see guys who have some experience on the street yet cannot deal with sport fighters.

    And LOL at a 1 inch punch from an extended position after the opponent slips the punch. And complete misunderstanding of #3 from a boxing perspective. You don't move the head because it's faster than hands, it is a combination of what targets are left open by your fighting stance and a very efficient movement of the head to slip to cause your opponent to use more energy than you and to open them up and extend them for a counter punch.

    Now that I'm done with the blasphemy paragraph, let's move on.
    Head movement is based on awareness not speed.

    Nice Willie Pep clip. Yes his head movement down by his opponent's knees are exploiting the rules of boxing and would get him in trouble in mma or self defense. But I'll bet the list of people on this forum that could actually hit Willie is pretty small. Even if he is 85 now.
    You are not going to be able to hit even a good amateur boxer unless you have put in a good amount of ring time. Until you get in and try you will have no idea how difficult it is to land a solid shot against someone who can box.

    As far as doing what boxers can't, the standard MT response to a slipped punch and an extended arm is grab the head and knee to the body. That sure holds up better than a 1 inch punch there. And there are other options in the clinch realm too.

    So what is WCK's answer to the boxing opponent whose head bobs around all the time? Centerline, baby, centerline. And center of mass. Drive a freight train right through the sternum while watching them bob for apples. Don't try to strike the head as it's the exact same thing as chasing hands. Chase center. You know, kind of like PB's right hand was doing to everyone on the seminar clips.
    I agree that the wing chun strategy is to dominate the centerline and that chasing the center is an expression of that strategy and if you are going to be able to deal with a boxer that is the way. However going back to what I said about street v. sport I think wing chun is great on the street because it is simple and limited and that is why it is at a disadvantage against boxers.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by k gledhill View Post
    Yeah, he makes it look easy. Good clip too. Some moves are obviously not mma friendly. I like to get my students used to this simple counter head to our punching entry slip, so they don't " squirrel ! " if they miss ; ) using certain techniques we do what boxers can't , like chase the head with the extended arm rather than retract and allow the head to recover.
    http://youtu.be/M72H7q2iabM
    Id disagree that boxers cant do that.

    In fact my personal favorite is an extended jab, particularly against a bobber/weaver, which is of the body more than normal and probably only moves about a foot to the target, retracts a bit and does it again. In addition to that, the hand "floats" a bit before striking

    Not exactly the same but similar

  11. #41
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    Wow. First time I saw the WSL clip. So to sum up WSL's message:

    1. Street vs. Sport
    2. 1 inch punch
    3. Hands are faster than the head.

    Pretty shaky ground there. The street vs. sport argument is pretty well over, even though many traditionalists doggedly refuse to acknowledge this. And LOL at a 1 inch punch from an extended position after the opponent slips the punch. And complete misunderstanding of #3 from a boxing perspective. You don't move the head because it's faster than hands, it is a combination of what targets are left open by your fighting stance and a very efficient movement of the head to slip to cause your opponent to use more energy than you and to open them up and extend them for a counter punch.
    Nicely put.


    Nice Willie Pep clip. Yes his head movement down by his opponent's knees are exploiting the rules of boxing and would get him in trouble in mma or self defense. But I'll bet the list of people on this forum that could actually hit Willie is pretty small. Even if he is 85 now.
    Id say the list would be zero... he passed in 2006

    As far as doing what boxers can't, the standard MT response to a slipped punch and an extended arm is grab the head and knee to the body. That sure holds up better than a 1 inch punch there. And there are other options in the clinch realm too.
    Spot on. Coming from a MT/boxing gym thats the first thing a MT guy will respond with.

    So what is WCK's answer to the boxing opponent whose head bobs around all the time? Centerline, baby, centerline. And center of mass. Drive a freight train right through the sternum while watching them bob for apples. Don't try to strike the head as it's the exact same thing as chasing hands. Chase center. You know, kind of like PB's right hand was doing to everyone on the seminar clips.
    Yep, we train to strike to the area between the throat and the sternum for a good mover and that translates well for a WC guy to use as well.

  12. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Wayfaring View Post
    There's a simpler solution shown by Randy Couture vs. James Toney.

    Low single to mount. Boxers can't punch very well off their backs.
    sounds interesting but i wouldn't want to 'mount' anyone i'm having a fight with i'll work on my kicks!
    I guess we are who we are

  13. #43
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    Boxing doesn't use forward pressure
    Really???

    Nope, no forward pressure here/

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpHNmL9hs_I
    Mike

  14. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Ali. R View Post
    I know you guys donít like him, and said many times over that he has or shown no promise and that Iím a horrible trainer/fighter, but he has won his first five pro fights by knockout. And I will be posting his next fight which should be his best challenge so far.


    Take care,
    How come there's no pro boxer listed for that name?

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaRoux View Post
    How come there's no pro boxer listed for that name?
    we wondered that last time he made this claim......

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