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Thread: Archery

  1. #151
    Again, my belief and I am not alone.

    http://www.societyofarcher-antiquaries.org/

    Most that belong to this used to believe those bows draws averaged 80-90 lbs. I have read others estimate 70-90. I have read as high as 110.

  2. #152
    Im sorry I keep being called away.

    My main point is I do not believe most archers were using bows over 100lbs. I am not swayed by the bows they found on the Rose. Now as I did years ago I looked because I wanted to believe.

    So, now if one is incline you can look in this-
    THE ARCHER’S TALE: AN EXAMINATION OF ENGLISH ARCHERS
    DURING THE HUNDRED YEARS WAR AND THEIR.

    You will find most bowmen where horse archers. Meaning they will get closer. If they are on Horseback it is highly doubtful they are using 6 feet bows like those on the Mary Rose. But most will dismount and be a lot closer. Again, in my opinion a poor choice for getting closer. Bow is to large. Little 5'8 guys getting into range of Knights and pikemen with 6' + 100+lb bows.

  3. #153
    Okay, I just found this.

    Pretty much how I believe. Not discussion of draw weights but I only skimmed. More of the effectiveness of the bow. I did say prior I sort of lump those heavier draw long bows in the sort of suck category. Overblown nonsense to those that do not have even cursory understanding of those the battles during that time frame. Or choose to disregard common sense look and see advice. Find it in use in rations similar to what is being claimed. The general reply is for some unknown reason that fails any actual standards of proof. All men way back then were just ungodly strong and we modern are incapable of even a tenth of legend. Which if so, will be a crushing blow to Bawang because using that logic we can no longer use those bows. No one can. We have become simply to weak. Anyone that believes that is being careless.

    I posted a video of a guy making a long shot. He hit his target first go. OUTSTANDING. Then I believe every other arrow fired missed. A common occurence using that kind of shooting at target that may be to far to see using arrows not designed for straight flight. But okay, those that like can keep believe. Ive said a couple of times at least this gets argued back and forth and probably has for centuries.

    Now this is one mans opinion. As is generally the case. People who use rational and understand and do there best to not go myopic. They understand the longer range bows were not the only weapon of the field. They understand the bow was not the deciding weapon in most of the battles. They keep a wider focus and look into as many aspect of that time frame and those battles as possible before making. They don't believe every recent study that somehow disproves all other studied before hand. They don't dismiss new information but they are discerning.
    But that's my opinion and others will not and do not have to agree with me.

    I try keep focus on the main objective. The end goal. The synergy of it all. The longbow sorry, that **** long range bow that now gets all the freaking credit, was not the major player aside form a few battles. Bow length and weights would be according to the user. Most men in England at that time were not the size of the archers discovered on the Mary Rose. Those men and people of similar size would be the only ones in general , guys of similar build capable of using those heavy pull bows on a regular basis. Other will simply have to use lighter bows. Not all men are created equal in strength regardless the training. It simply does not happen. Yet all the men of England needed to practice bow as was law. Every Sunday or whatever. And for some unknown reason we throw out everything we know prior or things we can prove today and believe LEGEND?

    militaryrevolution.s3.amazonaws.com/Primary%20sources/Longbow.pdf

  4. #154
    By the way, I believe most bow kills came from lighter bows used close.

  5. #155
    It's fascinating to see how fast a thread about archery can degenerate into names calling.

    But since there was an appeal to common sense: The total war or levée en masse is a modern invention. There was not "everyone" on the battlefield in the middle ages . If some nobleman drafted all his peasants, who would farm his crops and pay his expenses? Every village would be obliged to send one or two able-bodied men. Secondly, the English archers are remembered for a reason. Saracen and Turkish archers battered knights in shining armor, the English ended them. They were the evolutionary answer to the war technology of their time. After them Swiss pike men ruled the battlefield. But English archers were the solution to a specific problem at one point in time. All actual clues we have confirm that Ea were simply very good at their job.

  6. #156
    Sorry about my part.

    I agree with the English archery part. I do not agree with he Heavy Longbow part. That Honour belongs to shorter weaker long bows and shortbows. Those were your real archers. By the way, modern target archery is not combat archery. Nope, Lars is closer to the truth than many imagine.

  7. #157
    By the way, do you know why Lars would not repeatedly draw his bow to full length? It is not because he is simply to weak or just trick shooting. It is because those short bows break unless backed. Plains indian backed their shortbows so they could get fuller draw. Did the English? Something I never looked into myself. Like I said, I don't really care to much about ancient history anymore. But it is funny to read all the in general current beliefs.

    Now all that Lars is really doing is showing possibility and expanding on the precieved limitation of something so toy like. Because if you ain't knocking down a castle wall with your bow , well, you have a toy. Just don't tell Custards offspring that ! Same bows they had in England really. It is not unique to America. In fact, even China had it. Those things sure do fit a horsemen real good though. But I bet a 4 foot short-long would work there to and up the pull poundage some so even half pulls will have enough punch to go into most everyone. Let the Pikemen take care of the Knights !

  8. #158
    I hope people clicked that pdf link. It was not the pdf I wanted you to see so much it was either name. I suspect some did and some did not. No worries.


    Anyway I wanted you to find this, you know, do your own work , as was suggested me. Again I spent far to much time on this crap years ago and far to much of late. I both agree and disagree with both men. In the end it does not really matter, LOL. We waste an incredible amount of time of trivial nonsense. I love history. I also love finding flaws in History. I would rather know the truth. Often the best we have is a educated guess based on who sways you. Most people do not ever think and question. I suggest do not debate. You will lose. But for me it is not so much debate again, what was the truth. That my goal. Most people just want to win. Im sure some here where in a debate club and the objective is to win. Remove that and make the objective the truth.

    Anyway, enjoy Im done. Pointless. Here is an interesting FACT . No of us were there ! LMFAO. Another. This in no way shape or form has any bearing on anything we will ever do in life. Our wives think we are freaking insane nuts for a reason. And you all thought I only side with us guys, LOL.

    It was fun, it was semi educational. Mostly to much of a waste of time but I do hope those still interested look at everything ! Don't just believe someone. here everyone and make up your own **** mind. People are freaking parrots.

    These are short clips so watch here and there. All this stuff is so old news to me. Been there done that and really have no further interest. By the way, NO ONE HER HAS EVER BEEN A WAR ARCHER regardless what your envision yourself to be. No one here is a tactical genius that I and probably we know of but maybe one day you will be ? I know there are a few here that believe they are tactical superior trying to one up another . Make them feel superior. Best at something. I thought that stuff died all over. Because mostly the guys that play that still sucked ass back then. Waited for the major player to bail out.

    VIDS -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E--DR8ZllVo

  9. #159
    This is only for those that have real interest in finding out truth. I mentioned cost of war. As stated previously everything ( or as much as possible needs to be considered. )

    And look see- 2 types of archers. 2 different pays. If we go by numbers alone , we pay according to effectiveness. Not always true but generally so.

    Horse Archers do not use 6 feet bows. Nor draws of 100lbs.

    http://www.usna.edu/Users/history/ab...01200_1400.htm

    There are also 3-4 good books of this stuff. Most will never bother to read them and I don't blame you. But 1 or 2 may hold real interest.

  10. #160

    Manchurian Archery

    Greetings,

    The first of two parts, the first is about Tong Zhongyi and the second part is about his daughter, Ku Ku:

    http://www.manchuarchery.org/last-manchu-archer-part-1


    mickey

  11. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Cataphract View Post
    It's fascinating to see how fast a thread about archery can degenerate into names calling.
    if you repeatedly refute facts and reply with repetitive opinion prepare to get sh1t on.

    if you openly admit in a kung fu forum that you dont train kung fu and talk like an expert on kung fu prepare to get sh1t on.

    if you have no real life experience with a subject and insist on amazon.com books and youtube videos prepapre for chocolate rain

    lars is a joke in the archery community, hes a trick shooter making bizzare autism claims, everything has been debunked and refuted by archery experts, end of story
    Last edited by bawang; 03-18-2016 at 10:23 PM.

    25th generation inner door disciple of Chen Style Practical Wombat Method
    Officially certified by Ethiopian Orthodox patriarch Abune Mathias
    grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat™®LLC Practical Wombat Method. international academy retreat

  12. #162
    I don't intend any of the above, but thanks for sorting out the bawang rules of internet communication.

    I don't think Mr. Andersen is so easy to dismiss. He's a trick shooter, and he caused more excitement than all "archery experts" combined. People love archery, but are dissatisfied with the mainstream. He struck a nerve. Horseback archers are also trick shooters. And very traditional.

  13. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Cataphract View Post
    He struck a nerve. Horseback archers are also trick shooters. And very traditional.
    yes because mongol archers take video cameras to the battlefield and do over 14 takes for trick shooting montage while using wrong bow grip while using a 35 lb baby bow

    lol @ struck a nerve. i dont care about nerd rejects like lars or lindy beige desecrating western martial arts, im not white, it doesnt affect me its not my culture. i just enjoy insulting midwest krotty hilly billy

    25th generation inner door disciple of Chen Style Practical Wombat Method
    Officially certified by Ethiopian Orthodox patriarch Abune Mathias
    grandmaster instructor of Wombat Combat™®LLC Practical Wombat Method. international academy retreat

  14. #164
    Join Date
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    …' [I]n the war against the Welsh, one of the men of arms was struck by an arrow shot at him by a Welshman. It went right through his thigh, high up, where it was protected inside and outside the leg by his iron*cuirasses, and then through the skirt of his leather tunic; next it penetrated that part of the saddle which is called the alva or seat; and finally it lodged in his horse, driving so deep that it killed the animal. -Gerald of Wales, 1191'
    Human Bones in Archaeology by Ann Stirland
    For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.

  15. #165

    Cost of war

    It takes money. Lots of money.

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