Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 72

Thread: Health Benefits of Santi Shi

  1. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew View Post
    Since it is very hard to correct people in motion, standing post exercises are a great way to utilize this posture-adjustment function.
    This seems to make sense. Could one benefit or purpose of standing still be that it gives the body and mind time to adjust and settle into a better posture and attitude? Time you wouldn't have (at least at first) if you were moving?

    In particular, if people tend to rush around a lot in their lives, then maybe they go to the gym and their training is also rushed. They never escape that rushed and hectic feeling except maybe when they are tired and warm right after a workout. ZZ could in part be a corrective for that.

    Master De Jian also explicates various natural breathing practices that combine these practices.

    My understanding is that these can aid in the goal of bringing the mind to an "extreme point" of focus where all distracted thoughts are stilled.
    Simlar or different to basic concentration practices for sitting meditation?
    Last edited by rett; 10-19-2013 at 12:51 AM.

  2. #47
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    379
    Quote Originally Posted by rett View Post
    Perhaps everyone can agree on this statement: "If you stand still, don't do dead standing."

    So what is "live" ZZ or Santishi as opposed to "dead"?

    (The thread starter was asking in terms of health more than quan I believe.)
    There are psychological health benefits immediately from taking any kind of non-harmful action to improve your health - just a change of attitude can sometimes make someone feel a bit better.

    Standing will, at first, obviously feel a bit of a chore. And there will be times when it feels like the point is just to endure it. "Live" zz comes from feeling the special kind of resistance that comes when you relax properly, and then squeeze or push, and feel like something is resisting your movement.

    I suspect that this is just the nerves firing just enough to initiate movement, but without actually moving the limb. As you practice more, this becomes a much stronger feeling - and you have to fight a bit of a battle to keep relaxing rather than tensing, in order to get the correct feeling. Over time, more and more nerves seem to "fire", and this creates a much stronger feeling. This is sometimes, but not always, used in harmony with visualisation techniques - which can be directed at an injury.

    Myself, I think this is just activating parts of our physiology that are normally dormant or under-used - and with it out amazing capacity for healing.

    For martial purposes, this feeling should transform into what is mysteriously called movement within stillness, but is really just the very simple practice of almost doing movements - doing them in the mind, but "firing" the nerves that would actually initiate those movements. This can then be extended in to bigger, slow movements. From personal experience, if I don't do this kind of practice I certainly feel less healthy, and capable of producing less power when I hit a bag, say.

    For health, the process can be used to target a particular body part to encourage healing. However, I would say there are obviously serious limits on this. I don't knoe all that there is, but I don't buy that it cures cancer, etc. - except maybe there could be an exceptional, miracle case (who knows?) - but for basic health and healing injuries, I've found it extremely useful. I'm in my mid 40s and feel stronger and healthier than ever, even after decades of training.

  3. #48
    The outside always looks similar and is easy to copy in any style, the real part important part is on the inside which can't be simply copied or reproduced from pictures or talk.

  4. #49
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Shell Beach, CA, USA
    Posts
    6,664
    Blog Entries
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by Robinhood View Post
    The outside always looks similar and is easy to copy in any style, the real part important part is on the inside which can't be simply copied or reproduced from pictures or talk.
    The SC 13 Taibao existed long before the YiQuan was born.

    http://imageshack.us/a/img219/8412/13taibo.jpg

    What do you think the "inside" suppose to do?
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 10-19-2013 at 10:23 AM.
    http://johnswang.com

    More opinion -> more argument
    Less opinion -> less argument
    No opinion -> no argument

  5. #50
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    379
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    Can you see the similiarity between YiQuan ZZ and SC ZZ?

    YiQuan:

    http://imageshack.us/a/img36/4668/r9pw.jpg

    SC:

    http://imageshack.us/a/img802/7051/13tbzz.jpg
    I've just read on a youtube video comment that Cui Rui Bin (the guy in the picture) was actually a shuai jiao practitioner before starting yiquan. I don't know if that's true, though.

  6. #51
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    234
    Quote Originally Posted by rett View Post
    This seems to make sense. Could one benefit or purpose of standing still be that it gives the body and mind time to adjust and settle into a better posture and attitude?
    Right, and for instance in learning physical labor, such as using an axe - it is easy to strain oneself, pull a muscle, and be generally inefficient with movement (e.g. use your back instead of axe weight). What's the need to be tense all about and why do we walk around forcing things that could naturally happen without stressing us?

    Quote Originally Posted by rett View Post
    Time you wouldn't have (at least at first) if you were moving?
    This seems like something I've come across. I always come back to using average farm implements for examples, not because I use them well or am good at using them, but because they are so familiar to many people, and I like to garden.

    After letting posture "settle" I notice much more coordinated "effortless" power. This is very important to people of my size (5 8 ish without much weight behind anything).

    I believe Sal Canzonieri described this in one of his writings as the elongation of Facial Tissue in the body/spine. That once that facial tissue is naturally elongated, power transmission is more efficient. (Kind of like tuning bicycle tire brakes so that they aren't always rubbing against the wheel). I think this may be related, and why many facial-tissue release programs see such positive results in "decompression" of people with spinal issues.

    If Xu Zhuang (the Shaolin fundamental ZZ) can accomplish this decompression/elongation of the facial tissue, then I think it is very worth learning.

    Quote Originally Posted by rett View Post
    In particular, if people tend to rush around a lot in their lives, then maybe they go to the gym and their training is also rushed. They never escape that rushed and hectic feeling except maybe when they are tired and warm right after a workout. ZZ could in part be a corrective for that.
    That makes sense. I think many people, including Miqi, wish we had a more scientific understanding of what this "rushed" feeling is, and what is being corrected. I don't blame them, and it would probably cause many people to take a second look, and consider such practices IF there was such scientific proof.

    Since I experienced it worked so efficaciously, how could I not praise it for its health benefits.

    Quote Originally Posted by rett View Post
    Simlar or different to basic concentration practices for sitting meditation?
    Maybe this approaches the question of Conventional and absolute truth, where the practices themselves are "rafts to leave behind." Where we can utiilize the noumenal concepts to attain phenomenal results that lack modern scientific explanations.

    I'm just rambling really though and should get to work on my home improvements for the day

  7. #52
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    379
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew View Post


    That makes sense. I think many people, including Miqi, wish we had a more scientific understanding of what this "rushed" feeling is, and what is being corrected. I don't blame them, and it would probably cause many people to take a second look, and consider such practices IF there was such scientific proof.
    Actually, I rather suspect that Miqi spends a great deal more time than either of you both in the gym and practicing zz. I don't require any scientific proof as to the veracity of the training method. Although I am humble level in the wider world of yiquan, any day of the week I can demonstrate on a heavy bag the specific mechanics of yiquan punching and power generation that the correct method has led me to. I never need to come up with silly diversions about swinging axes.

    I just want to highlight that your explanation, and understanding, is superficial and misleading. However, you've cited Sal Conzonieri as a credible source, so that rather does that job for me.

    Relaxation is an element of zz, but if it were only as simple as learning to use an axe in a more relaxed manner, than that woud actually make zz as an independent exercise a meaningless euphemism for relaxation. Which, in your level, it really is.

    Now, when you and Rett have something to show of yourselves, then you may speak, and may even justifiably put down others.
    Last edited by Miqi; 10-20-2013 at 11:41 AM.

  8. #53
    Swinging axes is not a silly diversion for me as at present I have about 7.5 cubic metres of firewood to finish splitting and chopping up from 4 pines I recently took down.

    Both moving and standing practise have been of huge benefit to me in connection with manual labour. Up until a few years ago this much wood would give me some back pain for a while. Now it's going fine, I feel nothing and I can work long stretches at it.

  9. #54
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    379
    Quote Originally Posted by rett View Post
    Swinging axes is not a silly diversion for me as at present I have about 7.5 cubic metres of firewood to finish splitting and chopping up from 4 pines I recently took down.

    Both moving and standing practise have been of huge benefit to me in connection with manual labour. Up until a few years ago this much wood would give me some back pain for a while. Now it's going fine, I feel nothing and I can work long stretches at it.
    I, of all people, would never doubt this. Nevertheless, Mathew's analogy is intended to get across his position that the purpose of zhan zhuang is merely to teach a person how to be more relaxed and efficient in their movement.

    This is wrong in two ways. One, it actually only states the result: relaxation, more efficient movement - and not the method. If zz is equivalent merely to being more relaxed and efficient, then zz IS merely being more relaxed and efficient - not any kind of actual physical method, such as the one I have previously described.

    And secondly, because zz IS a physical method, precisely as I have previously described, utilising contradictory and dialectic tensions - dialectic here meaning between stillness and movement, mental and physical, relaxation AND tension.
    Last edited by Miqi; 10-20-2013 at 02:04 PM.

  10. #55
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    379

  11. #56
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Shell Beach, CA, USA
    Posts
    6,664
    Blog Entries
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by Miqi View Post
    I don't do this ZZ but I like the way that he moved around.

    In 13 Taibao, for every static ZZ, there is a dynamic ZZ associated with it. Some people may not even know the existence of the dynamic ZZ in 13 Taibao.
    http://johnswang.com

    More opinion -> more argument
    Less opinion -> less argument
    No opinion -> no argument

  12. #57
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    234
    Quote Originally Posted by Miqi View Post
    I, of all people, would never doubt this. Nevertheless, Mathew's analogy is intended to get across his position that the purpose of zhan zhuang is merely to teach a person how to be more relaxed and efficient in their movement.
    At this point I recognize your habitual misrepresentation of others positions is merely your way of passively disagreeing with said imagined position.

    I think that would be to mistake a secondary (or tertiary) level benefit for the purpose. I'd have to note many people practice their own variations on ZZ for their own reasons.I practice to collect concentration to an extreme point. The method used is the external manifestation of this purpose (in this case standing zz) which happens to give health benefits and is the topic of this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miqi View Post
    This .is wrong in two ways. One, it actually only states the result: relaxation, more efficient movement - and not the method. If zz is equivalent merely to being more relaxed and efficient, then zz IS merely being more relaxed and efficient - not any kind of actual physical method, such as the one I have previously described.
    You've already discovered this and that's great. There are many benefits to being concentrated, whether moving or (relatively) still in body.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miqi View Post
    And secondly, because zz IS a physical method, precisely as I have previously described, utilising contradictory and dialectic tensions - dialectic here meaning between stillness and movement, mental and physical, relaxation AND tension.
    Interesting, I think this relates to motors having a good air to gas ratio to run optimally. Even when throttle is as closed as possible, there is still gas in the mix.

  13. #58
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    IL
    Posts
    993
    Doc Fai Wong's teacher had a similar routine but his specialty was taijiquan.
    He wrote a book about the many standing postures that was part of a conditioning
    regimen before entry into taijiquan practice.

  14. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Miqi View Post
    I, of all people, would never doubt this. Nevertheless, Mathew's analogy is intended to get across his position that the purpose of zhan zhuang is merely to teach a person how to be more relaxed and efficient in their movement.
    No it's not. Matthew was just describing some training experiences in a conversational tone and relating them to some ideas. Nowhere did he claim that that is the sole purpose of ZZ nor did he even say that's all he has experienced. It's not even implied in what he wrote in any way.

    I criticized you after I saw you make an unprovoked personal attack and distort people's views to ridicule them. You've done this several times elsewhere. Whether out of malice or just plain stupidity remains to be seen. You also demand evidence shrilly (sometimes for claims no one has made) but when you make a controversial claim you refuse to provide evidence for it.

    You basically appear to be looking to manufacture conflicts so that you can trumpet your own perceived superiority. You behave as a bully (what you call "justifiably putting down others" in your own words) and you look for opportunities to bicker. And when you are called on it, then you suddenly start saying "let’s not bicker mate" and pose as the victim only to attack again shortly after.

    Why don't you drop the posturing, the bullying, and the straw men? If you are as expert as you claim, then you should have no need to put down others to prove it. But if you are insecure, then I can understand why you bully.
    Last edited by rett; 10-20-2013 at 11:05 PM.

  15. #60
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    379
    Quote Originally Posted by rett View Post
    No it's not. Matthew was just describing some training experiences in a conversational tone and relating them to some ideas. Nowhere did he claim that that is the sole purpose of ZZ nor did he even say that's all he has experienced. It's not even implied in what he wrote in any way.

    I criticized you after I saw you make an unprovoked personal attack and distort people's views to ridicule them. You've done this several times elsewhere. Whether out of malice or just plain stupidity remains to be seen. You also demand evidence shrilly (sometimes for claims no one has made) but when you make a controversial claim you refuse to provide evidence for it.

    You basically appear to be looking to manufacture conflicts so that you can trumpet your own perceived superiority. You behave as a bully (what you call "justifiably putting down others" in your own words) and you look for opportunities to bicker. And when you are called on it, then you suddenly start saying "letís not bicker mate" and pose as the victim only to attack again shortly after.

    Why don't you drop the posturing, the bullying, and the straw men? If you are as expert as you claim, then you should have no need to put down others to prove it. But if you are insecure, then I can understand why you bully.
    Is it alright with you if just don't engage this? All I really want from you is total acceptance that I know a great deal more than you. Then actual, useful knowledge can be promoted. Nothing personal. Mate.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •