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Thread: Can TCMA and Christianity mix?

  1. #1

    Can TCMA and Christianity mix?

    Can a Christian practice TCMA without violating Christian doctrine/beliefs? For example; bowing to school alters, practicing Daoist concepts in taiji quan, the concept of Qi, practicing and/or promoting styles that are rooted in temples that worship deities other than the Judeo-Christian god, etc.

    This question is not about arguing for which faith or religion is true. That's a completely different subject. Also, This question is not limited to only Christians. This question can be applied to many other faiths and/or circumstances in relation to practicing TCMA. People of all faiths are more than welcome to participate. I would love to hear your opinion. All I ask is for no religion bashing. Please be respectful.
    Last edited by Wuxia007; 11-15-2013 at 11:18 AM. Reason: Wanted to add clarification to purpose of question.

  2. #2
    The old testement forbids graven images, yet the church certainly led to the production of many images of Jesus and Mary that were in effect worshiped. This led within Christianity to the debate over "icons" which at times was as violent as any crusade. Should we even mention that the old testement and the religion of Jesus himself taught that there is only ONE G'd.. and in many ways the doctrine of the holy trinity contradicts this.

    Or perhaps we should mention that prior to about 350 AD at least half of those who indentified themselves as Christians din't in fact believe in the trinity and when forced to either conform or be cast out, they left and became Muslims.

    Are martial arts in fact "religious"? Currenlty reading Meir Shahar and he argues rather convincingly that fighting was completely divorced from all these elements until the late Ming. He also has an entire chapter devoted to how Daoism,, Buddhism and Confucianism melted into eachother seemlessly, leading to the confusion so many westerners have as to what is really what

    But I digress
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    well, like LKFMDC - he's a genuine Kung Fu Hero™
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    As much as I get annoyed when it gets derailed by the array of strange angry people that hover around him like moths, his good posts are some of my favorites.
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    I think he goes into a cave to meditate and recharge his chi...and bite the heads off of bats, of course....

  3. #3
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    Sure. Why not?

    It's up to you. If you're uptight, then you probably will see problems with mixing the two. If you're a reasonable person who happens to be Christian, while also being interested in Chinese martial arts - you will likely not see a reason to limit yourself to new experiences and perspectives. You will also most likely be a happier individual than the uptight type.

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    If your opponent punches on your right side of your face, you suppose to let him to punch on your left side of your face. If your opponent doesn't do that, you should punch yourself on the left side of your face, and help him to knock you out.
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    Just make sure to forgive after getting hit on the other cheek.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    If your opponent punches on your right side of your face, you suppose to let him to punch on your left side of your face. If your opponent doesn't do that, you should punch yourself on the left side of your face, and help him to knock you out.
    I see what you did there..........
    Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253

    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    well, like LKFMDC - he's a genuine Kung Fu Hero™
    Quote Originally Posted by Taixuquan99 View Post
    As much as I get annoyed when it gets derailed by the array of strange angry people that hover around him like moths, his good posts are some of my favorites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    I think he goes into a cave to meditate and recharge his chi...and bite the heads off of bats, of course....

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by lkfmdc View Post
    The old testement forbids graven images, yet the church certainly led to the production of many images of Jesus and Mary that were in effect worshiped. This led within Christianity to the debate over "icons" which at times was as violent as any crusade. Should we even mention that the old testement and the religion of Jesus himself taught that there is only ONE G'd.. and in many ways the doctrine of the holy trinity contradicts this.

    Or perhaps we should mention that prior to about 350 AD at least half of those who indentified themselves as Christians din't in fact believe in the trinity and when forced to either conform or be cast out, they left and became Muslims.
    The graven images thing is prevalent in Catholicism and was imported from other religions. It is not common in most other branches of Christianity.

    Many Protestant churches have continued the monotheistic doctrine from Judaism....that should probably be clarified when referring to Christians and the Trinity...it certainly doesn't apply to all branches....
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post

    Many Protestant churches have continued the monotheistic doctrine from Judaism....that should probably be clarified when referring to Christians and the Trinity...it certainly doesn't apply to all branches....
    Do you know a protestant movement that doesn't believe in the father, the son and the holy ghost?
    Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253

    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    well, like LKFMDC - he's a genuine Kung Fu Hero™
    Quote Originally Posted by Taixuquan99 View Post
    As much as I get annoyed when it gets derailed by the array of strange angry people that hover around him like moths, his good posts are some of my favorites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    I think he goes into a cave to meditate and recharge his chi...and bite the heads off of bats, of course....

  9. #9
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    I am a very devout christian...for crying out loud I am a professional gospel and opera singer hahaha

    What my sifu teaches me does not contradict my faith at all. He is a very devout buddhist and he knows I won't do certain things but he does not take offense to it at all. All of my church and my christian friends know I do TCMA. I even work at a sex shop and I'm still a virgin, waiting till marriage. It all depends on you the individual if you are able to separate certain things since some people are not able to and thats where the conflicts of faiths begin.

    This is all my opinion haha

  10. #10
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    I remember losing a student because of our school altar

    He'd been with us for some time. Then one day, he asked what the altar was, which was sort of funny as at that school, it dominated the feng shui, so it was really hard to overlook. After he left, I figured that if it took him that long to ask, he probably wasn't cut out for Kung Fu anyways.

    We have two related threads to this:
    Christian Martial Arts Union
    Martial Arts & Religion
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wuxia007 View Post
    Can a Christian practice TCMA without violating Christian doctrine/beliefs? For example; bowing to school alters, practicing Daoist concepts in taiji quan, the concept of Qi, practicing and/or promoting styles that are rooted in temples that worship deities other than the Judeo-Christian god, etc.
    Unfortunately, it will depend on the views of one's own church/denomination as to the answer to your question. Church/denominational views are too diverse for any one person to answer this question.

    I went to college and majored in theology. After which I was ordained as a conservative, fundamentalist, Pentecostal minister. Afterwards, I served in Christian ministry for fourteen years. Though I was always given grief for my practice of martial arts, by religious people, I never felt that the two were contradictory.

    I practices you mention above are rarely found in US TCMA schools. I was never required to bow to an altar or accept any oriental religious beliefs. Even when I trained in China these practices were not required. So, I think it is a moot point.
    Last edited by mooyingmantis; 11-15-2013 at 02:22 PM.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by GeneChing View Post
    He'd been with us for some time. Then one day, he asked what the altar was, which was sort of funny as at that school, it dominated the feng shui, so it was really hard to overlook. After he left, I figured that if it took him that long to ask, he probably wasn't cut out for Kung Fu anyways.

    We have two related threads to this:
    Christian Martial Arts Union
    Martial Arts & Religion
    Chan Tai San's manhattan school had an altar that was literally like a little kid's play shed, it was HUGE, you could walk INTO it and on any major occasion it would be the site of burning crap, tons of incense and piles of pork. One student asked if there was anything religious about it, and my hing-dai with the crazy sense of humor said "no, why'd you think that"
    and the student just went "OK"

    Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253

    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    well, like LKFMDC - he's a genuine Kung Fu Hero™
    Quote Originally Posted by Taixuquan99 View Post
    As much as I get annoyed when it gets derailed by the array of strange angry people that hover around him like moths, his good posts are some of my favorites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    I think he goes into a cave to meditate and recharge his chi...and bite the heads off of bats, of course....

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by lkfmdc View Post
    Do you know a protestant movement that doesn't believe in the father, the son and the holy ghost?
    I know many protestant organizations that believe the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are different manifestations of one God.

    For example, it is taught that Jesus was a man that God lived in, "He who has seen me has seen the Father," the Holy Spirit is taught as the spirit of God...it is called "Oneness" doctrine and is quite common...

    A typical analogy would be to say that you may be a father, a husband, a coach, a business owner, but one person...it differs from Trinitarian theology which views Father, Son and Holy ghost as three separate entities, instead of different manifestations of the same entity....
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

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  15. #15
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    Lam Kwoon's altar was huge too.

    Our altar stood prominently in the hall and all the students faced it and bowed to it before and after classes. I remember thinking "you're asking me now?"
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
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