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Thread: I think Judo is going to overtake BJJ as the grappling art of choice for MMA

  1. #1

    I think Judo is going to overtake BJJ as the grappling art of choice for MMA

    Because the game seems to be played differently nowadays, I think Judo is going to overtake BJJ as the grappling art of choice for MMA.

    Check this video out to see what I mean.

  2. #2
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    umm what video??
    Anyway i think you are wrong, BJJ isnt the grappling art of choice for MMA its the ground art of choice, and this isnt going to change it has a larger range of submissions and uses then better than judo, judo time limits mean the submission game isnt as well developed and the pinning game isnt really suitable for mma

    The standing grappling art of choice is wrestling, and it always will be, it allows direct leg attacks which judo doesnt, does not reply on gripping cloth to set up its takedowns and throws, and since it doenst allow for ippon it leads from throw to pin/control better that judo, you rarely see wrestling sacrificing ground poisitional control for a big throw, you see this in judo all the time

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    umm what video??
    Click your mouse on the word "Video" on my original post and it links to a FB video. You may have to be logged in to Facebook to see it.

  4. #4
    anyway - Judo's better than wrastl'n

    Rousey will prove it in UFC 170

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    judo time limits mean the submission game isnt as well developed and the pinning game isnt really suitable for mma
    I disagree - that's really why it's better in today's MMA environment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyB View Post
    I disagree - that's really why it's better in today's MMA environment.
    One of my guys has 15 years wrestling experience. Both his father and his brother are wrestling coaches. He had won the 2nd place region wrestling tournament. He didn't do very well in his 1st jacket throw tournament. IMO, if you don't train Gi environment, you won't be good in Gi environment.

    Next time you have to fight your opponent in the street, will he have T-shirt on or winter jacket on? You will never know.
    http://johnswang.com

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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    One of my guys has 15 years wrestling experience. Both his father and his brother are wrestling coaches. He had won the 2nd place region wrestling tournament. He didn't do very well in his 1st jacket throw tournament. IMO, if you don't train Gi environment, you won't be good in Gi environment.

    Next time you have to fight your opponent in the street, will he have T-shirt on or winter jacket on? You will never know.
    I'm just looking at MMA - some of what Frost says is true on face value, but most Judoka now are interested in MMA - so there's a lot of no gi practice and a lot of people have brought in some of the holds and leg locks from jiu jitsu and Sambo to their clubs. So it's more well rounded than before. A good judo club will beat you and toughen you up. There's even newaza only tournaments that look like BJJ, except faster.

    The rules changes meant that judoka had to be faster, more explosive, and more decisive - these are qualities that should do well in the modern MMA environment. I do think BJJ will always dominate submission grappling because that's what they do - but some of that stuff that's winning submission tourneys doesn't cross over into the MMA environment. For example, A lot of the leg submission hunters look like snakes spawning when they grapple each other - it's cool in it's own context, but there's so many opportunities for them to get their clocks rocked that to attempt to do it in MMA would be suicide.
    Last edited by MightyB; 01-20-2014 at 11:32 AM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    Next time you have to fight your opponent in the street, will he have T-shirt on or winter jacket on? You will never know.
    Probably depends on the weather.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    Probably depends on the weather.
    Today, 17 degrees F and cloudy.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyB View Post
    there's a lot of no gi practice ...
    This issue had bothered me quite a bit. Should one start from

    1. Gi environment and just stay there without worrying about the no-Gi environment.
    2. no Gi environment and just stay there without worrying about the Gi environment.
    3. Gi environment and move into no-Gi environment,
    4. no Gi environment and move into Gi environment,

    When my wrestling student came to me, I started him with no-Gi environment. I didn't teach him the Gi-environment. It ends up with him to lose his 1st jacket tournament. It was my fault because I made a wrong assumption that "If you are good in no-Gi environment, you will be good in Gi environment by default". I was wrong.

    So option 1 is not acceptable if one wants to compete in MMA. Option 2 is also not valid that was counter proved by my wrestling student. We have option 3 and option 4 left. Which approach is better?
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 01-20-2014 at 12:20 PM.
    http://johnswang.com

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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This issue had bothered me a lot. When my wrestling student came to me, I started him with no-Gi environment. I didn't teach him the Gi-environment. It ends up with him to lose his 1st jacket tournament. It was my fault because I made a wrong assumption that "If you are good in no-Gi environment, you will be good in Gi environment by default". I was wrong.
    I'd agree. There's so many nuances to both games. I'm not sure what's better, personally I like Gi more than no Gi because I can use grip work to neutralize someone who's really aggressive.

    I'd say option 3, start with Gi, and then move to No Gi.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyB View Post
    I'd agree. There's so many nuances to both games. I'm not sure what's better, personally I like Gi more than no Gi because I can use grip work to neutralize someone who's really aggressive.

    I'd say option 3, start with Gi, and then move to No Gi.
    I like both Gi and no Gi. I have good confidence in my grip strength that's hard for my opponent to break it. I also like the no-Gi because a round can move much faster and I do like to use arm wrap, under hook, over hook.

    The only concern about option 3 is after you get used to the sleeve hold, it will take time to break that habit. If you start from arm wrapping, you don't have to break that sleeve hold habit. But since option 4 will not be able to allow you to work on throws that require "pulling". Option 4 is not good either.
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 01-20-2014 at 12:30 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyB View Post
    I disagree - that's really why it's better in today's MMA environment.
    what no neck cranks, no guillotines, no shoulder locks, no leg locks, no pressure on the back of the head? what makes this set up better than bjj for subs?
    scarf hold as a pin, pins that dont advance your position but which score an ipon after 20 secs hold down, escapes from a pin by simply breaking their legs open, no real guard game all of these are of no real use in MMA

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    what no neck cranks, no guillotines, no shoulder locks, no leg locks, no pressure on the back of the head? what makes this set up better than bjj for subs?
    scarf hold as a pin, pins that dont advance your position but which score an ipon after 20 secs hold down, escapes from a pin by simply breaking their legs open, no real guard game all of these are of no real use in MMA
    Gene Lebell

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyB View Post
    Gene Lebell
    so that's your arguement, a guy who started out as a catch guy and mixed his judo with a lifetime of catch wrestling, seriously that's your trump card

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