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Thread: Obasse & Kevin Gledhill chi sau

  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimhalliwell View Post
    I think the only way to deal with someone like this from my point of view is forget trying to roll with this guy and start punching!
    It would take me only a few second to realise that this was never going to work and start hitting!
    Obassi was probably on some kind of mission in his mind god knows but I think I would have been far less tolerant but maybe that's just my weakness!
    Not a weakness!

  2. #107
    Obassi I don't know him but Ving Tsun chi sau was obviously not on the menu that day! and it would have been more acceptable for Obassi to make his intensions a little clearer before hand!
    I don't know how this was arranged but if there were disagreements over the net (I don't know this) then I for one would know what I would be eating that day!
    You have one big guy not rolling just putting two strong arms towards you and I think chi sau should enable you to work round this! In an efficient way and hit !

    I think Kevin was hijacked on this occasion and was probably waiting for obassi to settle down I don't know but he must be a far more controlled guy than a hot head like me because I would have tried to hit anyone doing that to me!
    Jim.

  3. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    I see absolutely no value in the type of "chi-sau" Obasi does. It's just arm struggling. Completely useless.
    The point is not in trying to see value in what Obasi does - I don't think many people would look at his Wing Chun with stars in their eyes.

    The point is how Kevin tried to deal with what Obasi does. Kevin's response during their Gor Sau exchange flies in the face of:

    a) almost everything he's posted on this forum about what the PBVT method does
    b) every video clip he's posted that purportedly shows that PB method
    c) all of his critiques of other Wing Chun methods outside of the PB method

    It's indicative, no, that Kevin has one made just one post on this thread - and that was to say that Obasi was very strong and took him to his limit (itself an indicative admission).

    From the forum's homepage I've seen that Graham, Sean and T-Ray have also visited a few times since this thread was started. All of the PBVT guys are staying quiet regarding this clip. And PB himself has not posted any response to it (that I have seen) on the German forum he often posts on.

  4. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by jimhalliwell View Post
    Obassi I don't know him but Ving Tsun chi sau was obviously not on the menu that day! and it would have been more acceptable for Obassi to make his intensions a little clearer before hand!
    I don't know how this was arranged but if there were disagreements over the net (I don't know this) then I for one would know what I would be eating that day!
    You have one big guy not rolling just putting two strong arms towards you and I think chi sau should enable you to work round this! In an efficient way and hit !

    I think Kevin was hijacked on this occasion and was probably waiting for obassi to settle down I don't know but he must be a far more controlled guy than a hot head like me because I would have tried to hit anyone doing that to me!
    Jim.

    Jim, when you have rolled with people the size of Rick (one of your students that I met at your seminar?) what did you find the best way to manage the sheer strength of people like that beyond just punching and putting them on the back foot?

  5. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Paddington View Post
    Jim, when you have rolled with people the size of Rick (one of your students that I met at your seminar?) what did you find the best way to manage the sheer strength of people like that beyond just punching and putting them on the back foot?
    There's a difference here as you know Rick is bigger stronger and looks to me faster than Obassi!
    but if I manage to get through without hitting Rick he would see this and acknowledge that. However in this case its very different I think if Kevin had attempted to hit or even get close to hitting then Obassi would have ignored than anyway.
    I tend to try and be faster without hitting but hey this is supposed to chi sau and some agreement has to be met, this was no chi sau rolling demo at all just one guy trying to push another round! But hey Kevin is a far better man than me keeping his head because I couldn't at all.

    Jim

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by BPWT
    All of the PBVT guys are staying quiet regarding this clip. And PB himself has not posted any response to it (that I have seen) on the German forum he often posts on.
    FWIW, I posted on this thread various times since early on - now what?

    Philipp has prolonged periods during which he posts prolifically and also others during which he has no time or no interest in doing so. Guess what, there's a life outside of these forums and the ridiculous back-and-forth going on in them. I see much of the discussions herein as a waste of time.
    Dio perdona... Io no!

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by BPWT. View Post
    The point is not in trying to see value in what Obasi does - I don't think many people would look at his Wing Chun with stars in their eyes.

    The point is how Kevin tried to deal with what Obasi does. Kevin's response during their Gor Sau exchange flies in the face of:

    a) almost everything he's posted on this forum about what the PBVT method does
    b) every video clip he's posted that purportedly shows that PB method
    c) all of his critiques of other Wing Chun methods outside of the PB method

    It's indicative, no, that Kevin has one made just one post on this thread - and that was to say that Obasi was very strong and took him to his limit (itself an indicative admission).

    From the forum's homepage I've seen that Graham, Sean and T-Ray have also visited a few times since this thread was started. All of the PBVT guys are staying quiet regarding this clip. And PB himself has not posted any response to it (that I have seen) on the German forum he often posts on.
    Yes. This is significant and I want to reinforce what BPWT has said. Hopefully this will be my last post on this thread. Those that have been around in this forum for awhile will know that the PBVT guys have consistently and repeatedly posted about how PB was the only student of WSL that got things right. That all of the rest of us have learned a somehow defective and misunderstood version of Wing Chun regardless of lineage. They have told us that what PB teaches is superior and have at many occasions said that they can't adequately explain it and that it has to be seen and experienced. They have posted many many video clips of PBVT guys doing Chi Sao and Lop Da. Now we have a video clip of one of the senior representatives of PBVT in the USA, and one of the most vocal of the PBVT supporters in this forum. Someone that has on multiple occasions belittled and insulted people of other lineages. And he looks like crap. He shows nothing of which he has been posting here for years.

    I feel for Kevin. We shouldn't be this critical of anyone. He should be given kudos for actually putting it out there for all to see. But he has brought this upon himself by his past conduct here.
    You cannot spend years (literally) belittling others and telling them how superior your version of Wing Chun is, and then when it comes down to a simple exchange show NOTHING of which you have spoken and NOT expect to get heavy criticism. That's just the way it goes.

  8. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha_Fist View Post
    FWIW, I posted on this thread various times since early on
    Sorry, I had no idea that you were a PBVT guy. So I stand corrected, one other PBVT student posted (along with Kevin's short response).


    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha_Fist View Post
    Philipp has prolonged periods during which he posts prolifically and also others during which he has no time or no interest in doing so. Guess what, there's a life outside of these forums and the ridiculous back-and-forth going on in them. I see much of the discussions herein as a waste of time.
    Sure, there's life outside of the forums. It strikes me as strange, however, that people like Kevin and Graham have been happy to sling mud on many, many threads and for those threads to go on forever, yet when we have a clip of PBVT that is, for once, outside of seminar or lesson setting, and the results are interesting, the PBVT response seems very muted indeed. By and large, PB posts online are also usually critical of others, so again perhaps it is just selective posting.

  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by BPWT. View Post
    The point is not in trying to see value in what Obasi does - I don't think many people would look at his Wing Chun with stars in their eyes.

    The point is how Kevin tried to deal with what Obasi does.
    I was commenting on the other videos of Obasi's chi-sau exchanges that were posted. That has nothing to do with Kevin. It's an observation of what Obasi does in chi-sau regardless of the opponent.

    Kevin's response during their Gor Sau exchange flies in the face of:
    Is that what it was? Kevin looked like he was just trying to roll and Obasi didn't know how. But despite that and the obvious imposing size and power Obasi was shoving uncontrollably at him, nothing really got through on Kevin and he wasn't completely manhandled or even put into a terribly vulnerable position. His footwork could have been better and he could have started striking and taking a more advantageous position rather than looking to connect and roll- that is, actually go into gwo-sau- but overall the floor was not wiped with him, by far. We didn't really get to see much from Kevin here as far as method, so there's not much to criticize. Obasi being on the offensive on the other hand...

  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by BPWT. View Post
    Sure, there's life outside of the forums. It strikes me as strange, however, that people like Kevin and Graham have been happy to sling mud on many, many threads and for those threads to go on forever, yet when we have a clip of PBVT that is, for once, outside of seminar or lesson setting, and the results are interesting, the PBVT response seems very muted indeed. By and large, PB posts online are also usually critical of others, so again perhaps it is just selective posting.
    What else do you expect Kevin to post that would provide real value to this thread? He doesn't owe you anything. You may not like Kevin, but guess what... in that case, it would be your problem, not his.

    Regarding critically posting, I am sure that if I go through all of your posts and count all the ones with critical content, you will stare at a statistic that may surprise you.... Being critical when reading and writing is the nature of these forums. An exchange of ideas is not constantly praising each other nor reading only posts that concur with your own statements, it is reading, reflecting, and commenting on opposing views. If people can't handle it, they should not read them.
    Dio perdona... Io no!

  11. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    Is that what it was? Kevin looked like he was just trying to roll and Obasi didn't know how.
    C'mon. Two people argue online, agree to meet and test with some Chi Sau, and you think they are going to roll in Poon Sao only? It is obvious that they'll play in Gor Sau. If Kevin was critical of Obasi's Wing Chun, it was surely from watching clips of Obasi doing Chi Sau.


    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    But despite that and the obvious imposing size and power Obasi was shoving uncontrollably at him, nothing really got through on Kevin and he wasn't completely manhandled or even put into a terribly vulnerable position.
    Kevin was manhandled, pushed and pulled back and forth. Obasi got through numerous times - he just wasn't trying to kill Kevin.


    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    We didn't really get to see much from Kevin here as far as method, so there's not much to criticize. Obasi being on the offensive on the other hand...
    We should have seen Kevin's method from the get go! If Kevin trains the Chi Sau and Lop Da drills that we see so much of in PBVT video clips, why, when faced with some free flowing Gor Sau, can't he implement the PBVT methods?

    What we saw was him stepping backwards, chasing hands and not exploiting openings. What we didn't see was what he always says he trains/has... LSJC, displacing contact so he can hit, angling to hit, lin sil di da, etc.

    If you think that there's "not much to criticize" from this clip, especially in light of all that Kevin has posted over the years, then I think you're not really being very honest.

  12. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha_Fist View Post
    What else do you expect Kevin to post that would provide real value to this thread? He doesn't owe you anything. You may not like Kevin, but guess what... in that case, it would be your problem, not his.
    Honestly, from Kevin I don't expect much more. I can't imagine the man posting to admit that he didn't live up to hype he creates himself. And yes, he owes me nothing. And I don't like or dislike him. Sometimes he shares, sometimes he's funny, sometimes he believes his own crap.


    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha_Fist View Post
    Regarding critically posting, I am sure that if I go through all of your posts and count all the ones with critical content, you will stare at a statistic that may surprise you....
    It really wouldn't surprise me It takes two to argue, and I've certainly had a few disagreements with people on this forum. But equally, I've never said that others are "clueless", have "misunderstood the system", etc, etc.

    Kevin's words and beliefs regarding PBVT didn't really tally with what he could do when Obasi met with him to see that method.

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by BPWT. View Post
    But equally, I've never said that others are "clueless", have "misunderstood the system", etc, etc. Kevin's words and beliefs regarding PBVT didn't really tally with what he could do when Obasi met with him to see that method.
    His view opposes yours. Period.
    Dio perdona... Io no!

  14. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha_Fist View Post
    His view opposes yours. Period.
    Yes. Now more than ever.

  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by LFJ View Post
    I see absolutely no value in the type of "chi-sau" Obasi does. It's just arm struggling. Completely useless.


    I did not say there was value to Obasi chi sau. The point is simple. We have 3 vid's of Obasi being Obasi in chi sau doing what he does . The only person unable to deal with it is the PBVT expert Kevin. He and other PBVT converts have run down Sam Kwok yet his grand student, a student of Phil Nearing if my guess is correct, does a much better job of dealing with Obasi and then we have a much smaller person from Alan Goldberg ,wing chun through Jason Lau,Richard Chen, Moy Yat does an even better job of handling Obasi.

    After years of reading how great PBVT is and how Sam Kwok , Moy Yat, Ip Chun Ip Ching Augustine Fong ets is all inferior to what PB teaches it is enlighting to see that when faced by a different non compliant person only the PBVT Sifu is totally incapable of dealing with it while others that are not sifu's and do not claim to train with pro boxers or having defeated countless drunks as a bar bouncer etc are able to hold their own against the very same person doing the very same pushing,muscling stuff.

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