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Thread: Are "Grandmasters" helping or hurting the progress of kung fu?

  1. #16
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    Utter and complete rubbish that people are wanting to listne to ANYONE who calls themselves Master, Grandmaster, Sigung, Sijo.

    You do not call yourself anything but your name.

    Most of these toolbags could not fight their way out of a paper bag.

    Enough said.
    Mouth Boxers have not the testicular nor the spinal fortitude to be known.
    Hence they hide rather than be known as adults.

  2. #17
    First off, this is the post where SoCo can really bag on me for hassling him for being mean.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoking Gun View Post
    The Asian 'grandmaster ' system is a Chinese confucian parochial hang over, that has more in common with foot binding, communism, polygamy, drowning unwanted female babies, and making capsules from human foetuses.
    Communism? And are you talking about placentas? WTF?

    enlightened Bruce, who introduced 'gong fu', famously rebuked that 'traditional styles look good, but simply don't work', and basically trashed everything that he learnt from Asia and built a style around Western boxing, wrestling, kick boxing and modern strength training. In the West traditional Chinese martial arts were as quickly discredited as much as they had become popularised. They are totally unscientific and illogical systems, founded by narcissistic megalomaniacs that want to pretend that they are the spiritual vanguard of all combative arts.
    Founded by? I'm not sure I should even expect a citation.

    But more to the point, why would you want to learn combat arts from a culture (China) that has proven itself incapable and unwilling to fight wars (like world war 2)
    Um, you are aware that the Chinese that took over the country were fighting the Japanese before the U.S., and more than the Chinese that the U.S. considered its allies? And that this was the reason many Chinese at the time didn't believe in the GMD? You weren't. Oh dear, you seemed to know so much about this.

    in the way that sections of the West has done?
    Sections of the West?

    It's simply not in the Chinese dna for men to voluntarily sacrifice their lives in war for freedom
    Mostly, the only wars that can legitimately be claimed, a century after their time, for freedom, are rebellions.

    or to have any success. Look at the history of the Mongols, Tibetans, Manchus, Xiong nu, and virtually every other nomadic tribal culture, that invaded, subjugated and conquered the Chinese despite being technologically and numerically inferior.
    Wow, in a few millennium, the Chinese were defeated a few times, but maintained the exact same cultural and largely continuous political system? Wow, what utter failure! Not to mention that between those times, the Imperial state was keeping those same nomads under control. Not to mention that, in the periods where the Manchus and Mongols took China, the mongols and the Manchus were technologically superior as far as advances in tactics and strategy, organization and training of armies, than the Chinese of the time, but could not rule China any differently than it had been ruled before. There are few civilizations to maintain that kind of continuity over that long a time, and most of those are long gone.

    Despite what the posers on this forum say, it wasn't MMA that destroyed Chinese Martial arts, it was boxing.
    Most of the westerners that brought kung fu to the states or popularized it had fairly extensive experience in boxing. Do you get paid by the assumption?

    Most MMA fights are dreadful, and the basic combat skills are diminutive and non existent. A good boxer would beat the hell out of a 'mma' fighter, as would a good thai boxer, and western wrestler.
    The second most vital experience one can gain from martial artists is the awareness that martial arts is full of egotistical morons who join a school to make themselves skilled, but instead stay with it to feel special and tell everyone else why they are wrong. The first most vital experience is recognizing the value of the martial artists who don't fall into that trap. Thanks for your vital and excellent help with the second.

    I reject any claims of 'martial arts' having anything to do with war, as you don't know what really ticks people to go there to begin with.
    Excellent first post. I especially like your ending with a refusal to engage any actual sources or ideas about the development of these arts. Books are for the debbil.

  3. #18
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    James "Lights Out" Toney sure beat the hell out of Randy Couture.

  4. #19
    Pankratian is clearly the real deal.

  5. #20
    Smoking Gun have some good points.

    Well gong fu, as we know them, have nothing to do with war, tha's for sure, in war you use primarily weapons, and the movements permited in a war fighting are not so wide like in gong fu, -just guessing, I'm not an historiar- so maybe the most simple and direct techniques could have some use in war, I mean ancient kind of war. So if gung fu have nothing to do with war, why we should measure it with a chinese state incapable of wining a war? Thats a mather of armies, governments and the population.

    I think gung fu have a bunch of crap in it, like any art that have passed large social and political periods of peace, and was combined with religious credences, and philosophical issues... ohhh and chinese opera, I almost forgot the chinese opera. So chinese -and I'm going to say it this way- fighting arts, where not destroyed, itīs like one boxer that is defeated by another boxer, you can't say that box was destroyed, just one fighter was better than the other, better trained, more strong, that have specialiced his techniques and can use them with success.

    I, sincerily, don't give a **** if anyone think's that chinese fighting arts are good or bad, or if everybody quits or starts to practice Chinese fighting styles tomorrow, I'm not going to earn more money for that; but I like the talk . And I wish Smoking Gun could talk more about this following:

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoking Gun View Post
    Most MMA fights are dreadful, and the basic combat skills are diminutive and non existent.
    because it looks interesting. Maybe another thread or PM
    Last edited by Vicius; 06-05-2014 at 12:20 PM. Reason: to write "... ohhh and chinese opera, I almost forgot the chinese opera"

  6. #21
    Korean Civil War was not entirely a loss for the Chinese armies. The beginning of every new dynasty, often some successful war involved. Chinese fought as Manchu bannermen, fought in the Mongol fighting forces, fought against Japan in China. Lots of warfare. Like every civilization, some wins, some losses. And some combat training.
    Last edited by Faux Newbie; 06-05-2014 at 02:00 PM.

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Faux Newbie View Post
    Korean Civil War was not entirely a loss for the Chinese armies. The beginning of every new dynasty, often some successful war involved. Chinese fought as Manchu bannermen, fought in the Mongol fighting forces, fought against Japan in China. Lots of warfare. Like every civilization, some wins, some losses. And some combat training.
    Sigh.. I'm not going to answer your contested claims on Chinese democracy, medical cannibalism, subjugation my nomadic Tibetan tribes..but I will say you are idiot for denying the extent of the Mongol subjugation/genocide of the Han Chinese. No other culture was beaten into complete submission/humiliation than like the Chinese by the Mongols. No other culture has gone through more dynastic change/usurpation of power, along with democide, than the Chinese. Read about the Chinese generals who made meat sauces from human blood (to be consumed) then smeared over war drums during the zhou dynasty. The modern totalitarian state originated in China (one of the pearls of asian civilisation), the CCP is nothing other than a modern re-manifestation of the ancient Chinese political system.

    There was no mass Chinese resistance to the Japanese during ww2, only a spattering of resistance by chinese communists .. over 20 million Chinese were murdered by fanatical 'bushido' japs who took delight in bayonetting babies and then toasting them, gang raping women like a pack of rapid dogs, and gorging women with bayonets up their uteruses like out of a disgusting horror movie. The 'heroic' chinese resistance is about as real as the Long march - a chinese communist myth to try and make chinese culture sound brutal and heroic. Does that smash your martial arts pipe dream of a vicious warrior culture to pieces?

    Bruce Lee was a 'master' for telling people to practice styles/techniques with real application and aggression. The thing he taught is to practice each and every technique in training with full force and power, which is counter-logic to 'gong fu' - a set of fluffy calisthenic 'like' movements performed in silk pyjamas.

    The UFC doesn't allow boxer/thai boxers into the tournament because they know that they would knock the living hell out of them in two minutes. MMa fighters hit with half the power of boxers/kickboxers. It's about as intimidating as a group of white belts with tattooed pit bulls brawling.

    You can get your asian values and **** off! Go and work for the confucius institute

  8. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Smoking Gun View Post

    The UFC doesn't allow boxer/thai boxers into the tournament
    Is that why they have had Cro Cop, Patrick Barry, Antoni Hardonk, Bas Rutten, Alistair Overeem, etc etc etc in the UFC
    Chan Tai San Book at https://www.createspace.com/4891253

    Quote Originally Posted by taai gihk yahn View Post
    well, like LKFMDC - he's a genuine Kung Fu Hero™
    Quote Originally Posted by Taixuquan99 View Post
    As much as I get annoyed when it gets derailed by the array of strange angry people that hover around him like moths, his good posts are some of my favorites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    I think he goes into a cave to meditate and recharge his chi...and bite the heads off of bats, of course....

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Vicius View Post
    And I wish Smoking Gun could talk more about this following:



    because it looks interesting. Maybe another thread or PM
    Yeah I used to watch the UFC in the early days (15 years ago) but take a look at the atrocious bellator MMA. It's like watching a bunch fans of son's of anarchy in a stupid bar fight.

  10. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by lkfmdc View Post
    Is that why they have had Cro Cop, Patrick Barry, Antoni Hardonk, Bas Rutten, Alistair Overeem, etc etc etc in the UFC
    there is nothing to fear in a mma fighter except being taken to the ground, and even there they are lacklustre.

    UFC is extremely corrupt, with an entrenched culture of match fixing and steroids.

  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by lkfmdc View Post
    Is that why they have had Cro Cop, Patrick Barry, Antoni Hardonk, Bas Rutten, Alistair Overeem, etc etc etc in the UFC
    Not one single person you mentioned is a professional boxer or thai boxer. Just Dutch mma 'kick boxer' fighters, with glaring connections to the corrupt/criminal dutch martial arts world.

  12. #27
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    More verbal diarrhea from net ghosts.


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    Mouth Boxers have not the testicular nor the spinal fortitude to be known.
    Hence they hide rather than be known as adults.

  13. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Smoking Gun View Post
    Sigh.. I'm not going to answer your contested claims on Chinese democracy, medical cannibalism, subjugation my nomadic Tibetan tribes..but I will say you are idiot for denying the extent of the Mongol subjugation/genocide of the Han Chinese. No other culture was beaten into complete submission/humiliation than like the Chinese by the Mongols. No other culture has gone through more dynastic change/usurpation of power, along with democide, than the Chinese. Read about the Chinese generals who made meat sauces from human blood (to be consumed) then smeared over war drums during the zhou dynasty. The modern totalitarian state originated in China (one of the pearls of asian civilisation), the CCP is nothing other than a modern re-manifestation of the ancient Chinese political system.

    There was no mass Chinese resistance to the Japanese during ww2, only a spattering of resistance by chinese communists .. over 20 million Chinese were murdered by fanatical 'bushido' japs who took delight in bayonetting babies and then toasting them, gang raping women like a pack of rapid dogs, and gorging women with bayonets up their uteruses like out of a disgusting horror movie. The 'heroic' chinese resistance is about as real as the Long march - a chinese communist myth to try and make chinese culture sound brutal and heroic. Does that smash your martial arts pipe dream of a vicious warrior culture to pieces?

    Bruce Lee was a 'master' for telling people to practice styles/techniques with real application and aggression. The thing he taught is to practice each and every technique in training with full force and power, which is counter-logic to 'gong fu' - a set of fluffy calisthenic 'like' movements performed in silk pyjamas.

    The UFC doesn't allow boxer/thai boxers into the tournament because they know that they would knock the living hell out of them in two minutes. MMa fighters hit with half the power of boxers/kickboxers. It's about as intimidating as a group of white belts with tattooed pit bulls brawling.

    You can get your asian values and **** off! Go and work for the confucius institute
    Every era in which there was not a dynasty based on one or the other of the Northern nomadic people, the Chinese were actively subjugating the Northern nomadic peoples. And there were more of those eras. This is basic history, just because you don't want it to be that way doesn't change the fact.

    Are you saying the Long March didn't happen? Care to cite a source on that?

    Also, you might want to keep in mind that a great many Japanese atrocities were in retribution for resistance from the Chinese.

    Good luck with your reliance on non peer reviewed histories on the internet to inform yourself.

  14. #29
    Okay, this just hit me.

    Did you cite the frikkin Zhou Dynasty to find cruel practices?

    Really?

    You mean, people in ancient times found inventive ways to be cruel? Thanks for this ground breaking study! Hell, you could have gone much more recently in Eastern or Western societies and found as much.

    By the way, where is your evidence that no other people has been subjugated more? Are you counting the carthaginians? Would you say that the continuance of Chinese culture has paid off more for the Chinese, or for the Mongolian people? How about the Manchus, run in to many Manchus lately? Got a lot of Xiongnu friends bragging about their domination of the region?

  15. #30
    And MMA fighters include a great many dedicated individuals who train their skills with thoughtfulness and courage. And some dedicated individuals who are not so thoughtful about their training, but at least have the courage to fight those who do. And, of course, some idiots.

    It's very easy to say who you are better than, proving it is the important part.

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