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Thread: The Way Forward

  1. #1

    The Way Forward

    There has been a lot of discussion on this the Wing Chun forum that can best be described as unfortunate and I have been one of the biggest contributors to this mess. I've stated elsewhere why I felt the way I did and why I got involved.

    But I'm not justifying myself. My behaviour has been questionable and even somewhat childish at times. I fully get this and am remorseful for that aspect of the discussion generally contributing towards lowering the tone.

    I have come to realise one or two things during all this.

    1/. Not everyone feels as passionately as I do.
    2/. Not everyone is honest and up-front when they should be.
    3/. A great many hide behind pseudonyms.
    4/. A great many have agenda's.
    5/. We All have to strive to lift the tone and behaviour exhibited here, myself no less than anyone else!

    So I's like to ask you ALL to participate on how this can be achieved? What is the way forward?

    As a means of starting discussion, why don't we treat each other as if we were in their school, Guan, Tang, Kwoon, Dojo whatever you want to call it?

    What rules of conversation, discussion and engagement or agreeing to disagree could we apply to ourselves here on this forum, the whole forum?

    How many of you are really for raising the bar here or am I simply pipe-dreaming?

    I often read Gene Ching's posts in the Magazine about Wude, Martial Spirit, Ethics and behaviour and agree with his views whilst shaking my head at my own behaviour often not being aligned to these very same things that at one time or another we all have been exposed to, taught and ought to strive for.

    So ... the discussion is open ... does anyone want to contribute?

    Ron Goninan
    China Fuzhou Zhenlan Crane Boxing Australia
    White Crane Research Institute Inc
    http://www.whitecranegongfu.info
    A seeker of the way

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Minghequan View Post
    There has been a lot of discussion on this the Wing Chun forum that can best be described as unfortunate and I have been one of the biggest contributors to this mess. I've stated elsewhere why I felt the way I did and why I got involved.

    But I'm not justifying myself. My behaviour has been questionable and even somewhat childish at times. I fully get this and am remorseful for that aspect of the discussion generally contributing towards lowering the tone.

    I have come to realise one or two things during all this.

    1/. Not everyone feels as passionately as I do.
    2/. Not everyone is honest and up-front when they should be.
    3/. A great many hide behind pseudonyms.
    4/. A great many have agenda's.
    5/. We All have to strive to lift the tone and behaviour exhibited here, myself no less than anyone else!

    So I's like to ask you ALL to participate on how this can be achieved? What is the way forward?

    As a means of starting discussion, why don't we treat each other as if we were in their school, Guan, Tang, Kwoon, Dojo whatever you want to call it?

    What rules of conversation, discussion and engagement or agreeing to disagree could we apply to ourselves here on this forum, the whole forum?

    How many of you are really for raising the bar here or am I simply pipe-dreaming?

    I often read Gene Ching's posts in the Magazine about Wude, Martial Spirit, Ethics and behaviour and agree with his views whilst shaking my head at my own behaviour often not being aligned to these very same things that at one time or another we all have been exposed to, taught and ought to strive for.

    So ... the discussion is open ... does anyone want to contribute?
    I compliment you for giving this thought. Good for you.

  3. #3
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    Thank you Ron. Good post and good idea.

    I think too often people hide behind a pseudonym and a keyboard and write things that they would never say in a face to face situation. IMHO every discussion here, like you suggest, should be conducted as if we were in someone's school or at least sitting around drinks having a face to face conversation. Sure, there will be some good-natured kidding back and forth, some off-topic meanderings in threads, some skipping around, some disagreements...just like in any normal conversation. But hopefully this would limit some of the more rude, snarky comments that end up with someone p!ssed off and taking a swing at the speaker or at least storming out of the room. When people are looking someone in the eye, they just naturally tend to be a little more polite than they are from behind a keyboard. Everyone should keep that in mind.

    And what this forum has lacked is any kind of consistent and serious moderation. No one likes to be censored and no one likes to be the bad guy doing the censoring. But clearly some of the things going on here recently needed someone to step in and exert a little authority. Just like the bartender stepping in and saying "keep it down guys, or I'm going to ask you to leave!"

    Personally, I hate pseudonyms and intials. Everyone should be required to provide a name, even if its a fake one. But that's just me.

    Everyone should also realize (myself included) that tone and intent can easily be misinterpreted in a forum format. Something that the writer didn't intend to be offensive when he wrote it can be taken that way depending on the context and positioning within the post and the way it is stated. Someone can make what they intended as a general comment, but place it right next to something someone else just wrote and it will look like it was directed at that person. So just being thoughtful and careful with what is written rather than just replying with "stream of thought" can go a long ways towards avoiding unnecessary conflict.

  4. #4
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    The WC forum is kind of a running joke, I am sorry to say.
    The pointless bickering and arguments about the most insignificant of crap is truly mind boggling.
    Some WC people are under the impression that their system is SO MUCH better/different than any other, they are closed minded and arrogant AND ignorant about the reality of MA.
    This whole forum gets into arguments about things that anywhere else in any other circumstances, would be the biggest joke ever.
    I think you guys just need to grow up, stop trying to be such prima donas and simple realize that it is OK to be different, Its OK to have different ways of doing WC and that there is NO "real" WC.
    WC is about fighting, every MA is about fighting regardless of the extra baggage anyone tries to tatted to it ( for whatever reason).
    The first step in you guys growing up is to realize THAT.
    The next step is to stop listening and giving and sort of credibility to those that can NOT ( or their students can not) "practice what they preach", ie:
    See it taught, see it fought.
    If someone comes up with some "theory" and they or their students CAN'T demonstrate for real, simply realize that what can't be fought with deserves as little consideration as possible.

    It also wouldn't hurt you WC guys to support your fellow WC peeps that are ACTUALLY FIGHTING with WC.

    Of course, if you feel that WC is NOT a fighting art, that it was NOT developed to fight with and that fighting is NOT the purpose of a system who's principles and techniques are about hitting and hurting other people, well then...

    Forget all I just wrote and go back to your La-La land.

    WC is no more and no less than any other MA, get over yourselves and grow up ( and grow a pair while you are at it).
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    It also wouldn't hurt you WC guys to support your fellow WC peeps that are ACTUALLY FIGHTING with WC.
    But they are not fighting with correct wing chun principles.....of course those said correct principles can only be talked about and demonstrated in chi sau and static applications not in actual fights against trained opponents...but still they are not using wing chun principles i tell you!

    and so the circle jerk goes on and on

  6. #6
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    See, here is part of the problem. Ron starts a thread with a sincere and honest intent and question. And then people come along with sole purpose of sabotaging it and taking it off-topic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    Some WC people are under the impression that their system is SO MUCH better/different than any other, they are closed minded and arrogant AND ignorant about the reality of MA.
    This.

    I can read and enjoy almost any thread on this forum, save for any in the wing chun forum. I don't know if its a few people ruining it for everyone else, but I get the same impression from the forums that I get in real life from wing chun people. Lot's of talk and pontification but no action on the lei tai.
    "I'm a highly ranked officer of his tong. HE is the Dragon Head. our BOSS. our LEADER. the Mountain Lord." - hskwarrior

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    See, here is part of the problem. Ron starts a thread with a sincere and honest intent and question. And then people come along with sole purpose of sabotaging it and taking it off-topic.
    This is an example of the problems in the WC forum.
    People express what those problems are and get "sabotaging and off -topic" as a reply.
    Realize this:
    While there is some drama and some disagreement in other forums, it never even gets close to the "drama queen" battles that happen here.
    Maybe you WC guys should trade in the sand in your vagina for a pair of balls.
    That may help.

    You complain that it is the lack of moderation on this forum but the reality is this:
    Everyone else sees you guys as the armchair warriors and drama queens that you are.

    You guys are lucky than ANYONE wants to moderate this desolate waste of cyber space that is populated by a bunch of whiny pussies.
    Last edited by sanjuro_ronin; 05-23-2014 at 10:27 AM.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    You complain that it is the lack of moderation on this forum but the reality is this:
    Everyone else sees you guys as the armchair warriors and drama queens that you are.
    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    You guys are lucky than ANYONE wants to moderate this desolate waste of cyber space that is populated by a bunch of whiny pussies.
    LOL!! way too funny (and not at the same time)
    What chi sau is, or isn't, or is, or wait, what is it..: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/foru...2&postcount=90

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    This is an example of the problems in the WC forum.
    People express what those problems are and get "sabotaging and off -topic" as a reply.
    Realize this:
    While there is some drama and some disagreement in other forums, it never even gets close to the "drama queen" battles that happen here.
    Maybe you WC guys should trade in the sand in your vagina for a pair of balls.
    That may help.

    You complain that it is the lack of moderation on this forum but the reality is this:
    Everyone else sees you guys as the armchair warriors and drama queens that you are.

    You guys are lucky than ANYONE wants to moderate this desolate waste of cyber space that is populated by a bunch of whiny pussies.
    You don't do Wing Chun. You don't like us. You think we are all pussies. So you are hereby invited to "GET THE HELL OUT!" Ron asked for a "way forward" to stop the bickering and fighting. Rather than offer a real suggestion, you chose to just feed the flames. Go back and read your own post. Then talk to us about "drama queens".

  11. #11
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    Rest my case.
    I Offered you the one real suggestion that would actually work.
    That you didn't get it speaks volumes.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    Rest my case.
    I Offered you the one real suggestion that would actually work.
    That you didn't get it speaks volumes.
    Maybe, just maybe it was because you started out with saying what a running joke we are and that we are prima donas that need to "grow up"....and then expect us to take your advice seriously? Did you even read what I posted on this thread? You barge into the bar where we are sitting around discussing and kick the table over spilling everyone's drinks and then expect us to actually CARE what YOU have to say? Get real drama queen!

  13. #13
    I also am uninvolved with WC, and I have nothing against the art itself...but...
    I do feel like SR's comments reflect the general sentiment of the larger MA's community.
    As stated, there is infighting, nonsense and lineage wars throughout all MA's, but really nothing close to the degree you get with WC; and the attitude is prevalent with what seems to be a majority of the practitioners, not just forum posters.

    I don't know why it's that way; and am not trying to be preachy, but I think the "WC attitude" is bad for Wing Chun and CMAs in general. I honestly hope the WC community becomes more involved with fighting, where you see less of that type of silliness going on. (You see it with fighters too, just not everyday. )
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    Maybe, just maybe it was because you started out with saying what a running joke we are and that we are prima donas that need to "grow up"....and then expect us to take your advice seriously? Did you even read what I posted on this thread? You barge into the bar where we are sitting around discussing and kick the table over spilling everyone's drinks and then expect us to actually CARE what YOU have to say? Get real drama queen!
    and you don't think you lot are a running joke to most other stylists here ....seriously? You don't think all you do is whinge and whine like a bunch of school girls.... have you read any of the threads here in the past year, everything from lineage wars to secret histories to not looking like how proper wing Chun should look (without of course showing us what it should look like) ronin is correct, the percentage of ****ing on each other threads to actually fighting threads here is about 100 to 1, and when someone does post a fighting clip YOU not only go on for 20pages about how its not wing chun (without not once manning up and showing a clip of what wing chun should look like un a fight) but then YOU also run off like a kid to the main forum hoping others will join in on your bashing...ffs grow a pair and when someone like ronin with a very good tcma background and actual extensive full contact and vale tudo experience offers advice listen to it

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by KPM View Post
    Maybe, just maybe it was because you started out with saying what a running joke we are and that we are prima donas that need to "grow up"....and then expect us to take your advice seriously? Did you even read what I posted on this thread? You barge into the bar where we are sitting around discussing and kick the table over spilling everyone's drinks and then expect us to actually CARE what YOU have to say? Get real drama queen!
    Keith, you just confirmed what SR was saying

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