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Thread: Interesting New England Sites

  1. #61
    You're assuming Atlantis existed. Possible that word got back to the Greeks(which is our main source) of North America, but it would have been through northern island hopping or the land bridge, most likely the latter, not by crossing the Atlantic. And there most certainly was not an advanced civilization here thousands of years ago. There would be evidence of that, and there isn't. As for earlier settlers who either died off or blended in with what we now call first nations, possible. But again, there isn't very much strong evidence to suggest that. Not that I've heard about anyways.

  2. #62
    And, confirm? Really? Not a very rigorous analysis, Mickey. Suggest the possibility? Ok. I disagree, but I can roll with that. But canals are far from confirmation of an ancient advanced society that we don't even know really existed.

  3. #63
    Greetings Syn7,

    Long time.

    Just because there is no evidence of xyz does not mean that there was no xyz. It just means that I has not been found. Same goes for advanced civilizations on this continent. We are both free to speculate pro or con. It is a wonderful world.

    mickey

  4. #64
    Yeah, been working hard, no free time for the last few months. I have much of the summer off though, I'm gonna re-introduce myself to this place called outside. I hear it's nice. Going on a 4 day hike/camping thing next sat. I'm excited, can't wait!

    As for xyz. Well of course. There may be an alien ship long abandoned orbiting Jupiter and we can't see it cause it still has enough power to stay cloaked . But I see absolutely no evidence to that effect therefore I have no reason to consider such a hypothesis. I feel the same way about god. Everytime I have looked for him/her, I just found religion instead. Some elusive shit right there! lol.

    The only reference we even have is from Plato's republic and they were a naval rival which would suggest that they were relatively close and not advanced to the point to where they could take over. But it's just a story. No more reason to believe that than there is to believe in any other ancient allegory that has absolutely no supporting evidence. But yeah, it's possible, just highly improbable. I think like an engineer, we live eat and breathe probability.

    Electrons can pass through solid matter. Despite having a low probability, the high frequency makes it happen all the time. That means it is possible that you could walk through your wall. But the probability of this is extremely low. So yeah, possible, but that shit ain't gonna happen. Speculation is just that, speculation. Nothing more. Conjecture can be fun, but you gotta take it with a grain of salt. That's why I jumped on the word "confirm". I have very high expectations that need to be fulfilled for me to even consider using such a term.

  5. #65
    Greetings Syn7,

    You should have looked at the two words that followed "confirm": "to me". It had nothing to do with anyone else on this planet. Yet, you made it about you. I ain't worked up about it. It happens.

    Native American people are definitely high civilization. That is what we are glimpsing with this thread. And it is what people are slowly understanding.

    As for Atlantis, I know of someone found a connection there. And that person was not even trying to go there nor even thinking about it's existence.

    mickey
    Last edited by mickey; 04-18-2015 at 05:13 PM.

  6. #66
    Elaborate?

    Define "high civilization" please.


    Not about me, about the scientific method. No other model comes close as far as predictions are concerned. Subjective vs objective, the age old agrument. In my mind it's settled.


    I ain't mad atcha. I just like to argue. The saying goes "arguing with an engineer is like wrestling a pig in shit. After a while you realize they're enjoying it!" ;

  7. #67
    HIGH

    2. great, or greater than normal, in quantity, size, or intensity.



    Full Definition of CIVILIZATION


    1

    a : a relatively high level of cultural and technological development; specifically : the stage of cultural development at which writing and the keeping of written records is attained

    b : the culture characteristic of a particular time or place


    https://books.google.com/books?id=65...merica&f=false

    2

    : the process of becoming civilized
    3

    a : refinement of thought, manners, or taste

    b : a situation of urban comfort

  8. #68
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    some stone wall stats/ insights

    Quote Originally Posted by mickey View Post
    Greetings MarathonTmatt,

    If those canals turn out to be spaces between walls, it would confirm to me that this land is where Atlantis existed. Walls that could have been used for military protection or for the purpose of retaining/redirecting water during times of deluge. More needs to be looked at.


    mickey
    Hi mickey-

    according to a survey done in the late 19th century there is over a quarter of a million miles worth of stone walls in the new england area, meandering around the land-scape, up ledges, retaining wet-land and water-works, etc. if these meandering walls were combined into one continuous wall, it would go around the circumference of the globe (ie the earth) more than 10 times.

    it is a statistical imposiibility that most of these walls were built in the colonial era, within 200 year time frame. colonists did build some stone walls, but compared to the already exisitng indigenous walls is minute in comparison. colonists also used wood more as a resource/ fence-making. i also know how to tell the difference as these two wall building traditions are different building styles.

    alot of the walls, of ancient origin (native, etc.) i examine usually have serpent and/ or bird efiigy's/ motiffs incorporated into the design elements. also stone altars are frequently incorportaed into the walls with little statuette stone idols still in place on top of these altars (birds, turtles, snakes, panthers, etc.), and the walls are usually found in context to many other ancient types of stone works. also i did notice some of these walls are either-

    a) fortifying village and/or ceremonial sites

    b) retaining water from brooks, swamps, wetlands. sometimes even terraced in multiple levels (lower level to retain the water at the edge of the stream, upper level fortifying the hillside). things like that.

    if anyone in general is curious i have featured some wall examples in this thread before & will probably post more soon. these are pre-colonial feats (who knows how old some of this is) of engineering.

    these walls indicate a stone-wall building tradition by native people over thousands of generations, given the sheer volume of stone-work. also, in colonial records, land deeds that refer to "indian fences" or "olde indian fences" are referring to stone walls of pre-colonial origin. alot of walls i have looked at run up steep rocky ledges, which from a colonial farming perspective makes no sense, as those grounds were never farmed or maintained by farmers, it would have been designated and classified as "wasteland." however, alot of these archaic-looking walls, thousands of years ago, would have been capping off and retaining the sides of beautiful river valleys.
    Last edited by MarathonTmatt; 04-19-2015 at 07:27 AM.

  9. #69
    Greetings,

    MarathonTmatt, that is a major WOW. Thank you for sharing that with me.


    Syn7, I hope things clear up for you. I sense you really do need that vacation. By the way, please keep me on your caseload. You are much more pleasant than "Blah blub blub blub Blah". I will not clarify that one.


    mickey

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syn7 View Post
    The only reference we even have is from Plato's republic and they were a naval rival which would suggest that they were relatively close and not advanced to the point to where they could take over. But it's just a story. No more reason to believe that than there is to believe in any other ancient allegory that has absolutely no supporting evidence. But yeah, it's possible, just highly improbable. I think like an engineer, we live eat and breathe probability.
    .
    Plato first wrote of "Atlantis" in his works "Timaeus" and "Critias". He mentions them as a naval rival in his work "Republic." I would recommend Samuel Poe's (who is Ojibwe Native) book "The Algonkian Conquest of the Mediterranian Region of 11,500 Years Ago" for more information on this. Like all books some things are subjective that you may not agree with, but it does present some good info. He also has some good info on Youtube about canal building. And, as far as maritime feats, it clicks with what scholars have calssified as "The Red Paint People" in the American NorthEast, who I have talked about on this thread before, who were excellent maritime navigators as far back as 9,000 BC years ago.

    I have already provided links, but okay, here it is again- http://www.ancientlights.org/tl1.html We know by some of their stone tools and idols that they were fishing large sea animals many miles out to sea, and that they erected standing stones as navigational devices. A new picture/evidence has emerged that they were excellent sea-farers. Also see the "Hidden Landscapes" series, again, all links I have provided before on this thread.

    I also recommend the book 'Manitou: The Sacred Landscape of New England's Native Civilization" by Mavor and Dix, who were both engineers/ scientists. They did a lot of archaeo-astronomy at sites, and found alot of solar alignments. Below is a link to the Upton Chamber, which is one of the sites they looked at in their book- http://www.stonestructures.org/html/upton-chamber.html

    Although not pertaining to American megaliths, I recomend for you James Swagger's (an Irish engineer) book "The Sirius Newgrange Mystery" pertaining to the passage chamber of Newgrange, Ireland.

    Plato himself did not write about Atlantis as an allegory, but as an account- one can see this in the tone of his writing. Since scholars don't know how to apply this work historically, they came up with the notion that it was an allegory. It's like calling 98% of our DNA "junk" dna. No, it's not junk, they just don't understand it. Plato's tradition of Atlantis can also be traced back to the Egyptian priesthood. It was originally this priest-class that told some of the learned Greek scholars on their pilgrimages to Egypt of the account of Atlantis. Plato's account describes a "volcanic island of ash" which could very well be Iceland. Also the suffix -atl which is used in Atlantic, Atlantis, Atlas, etc. is not Latin or Greek in origin. Neither is it Egyptian. So where does the suffix (or prefix or whatever) -atl come from? It comes from the America's, such as the language Nahuatl from the Yucatan, or the atlatl, the throwing spear used throughout North and Central America, with possible origins in the NorthEast.

  11. #71
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    Echo Lake Stone Lodge Re-Visited

    Since I did a shotty job of covering this very important site, I am going to cover it again.

    Echo Lake is in Hopkinton/ Milford MA. and is the headwaters of the Charles (flows into Boston Harbor), Blackstone (flows into Narragansett Bay RI) and Sudbury (flows into other rivers that dump into the Merrimack/Atlantic in NH) Rivers. To Native people such areas were important meeting spots- the confluence of rivers. I first started hiking that area with Massachusetts state archaelogist and anthropologist Curt Hoffman, who I first met when hiking a group up to another site I found, the stone shrine with the winter solstice alignment (first post on this thread.)

    Curt wanted to see if there was anything important to be found in the Echo Lake area. We found some cairns on a hillside the first time we went in. It is a relatively in-accessible place with alot of rock ledges/ under-brush. I went back and found the Stone Lodge/ Shrine. There are also stone altars surrounding the Stone Lodge, as well as a ceremonial stone circle at the foot of the lodge.

    The three stone altars-

    This is the closest stone altar to the Stone Lodge. I imagine somebody placing an offering on this stone slab before entering the main vicinity of the site, over-looking the site-

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-mUlNhyMevn...1600/ech8A.jpg

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Fjukpxghec...s1600/ech8.jpg

    Stone Altar #2, incorporates a stone fish effigy-

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-02RkJYv8pE...s1600/ech5.jpg

    Stone Altar #3, stone ring petro-form and stone slab-

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YGmQGhJaQs...600/ech7OB.jpg

    The ceremonial stone ring at the foot of the stone lodge (partly buried)-

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-1c5gxokxm1...1600/ech7B.jpg

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-rAOwKTigA-...600/ech7OA.jpg

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qi3t8iGHv2...600/ech7BC.jpg

    The Stone Lodge itself. Archeo-astronomy still needs to be done at this site, I am the only one to see this site in person for research so far-

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YgCSzE9hwD...600/ech7JA.jpg

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-UsBkt5zT5a...600/ech7CA.jpg

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-v9qEtPG5fu...s1600/ech7.jpg

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-sHdD_yVXgj...600/ech7KC.jpg

    back of the structure. I am concerned that these trees are ruining the back of the structure. also the stone work the trees are messing up seems to indicate more elaborate design elements buried in the back of the structure-

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-TLenv5d1N9...1600/ech7A.jpg

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ikOwAw-127...1600/ech7G.jpg

    Close- up of the roof slabs from climbing on top of the structure. Notice the lichen has built up, which takes thousands of years to do-

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-eoQgRWzLsy...1600/ech7O.jpg

    There are no quarry marks or drill marks on any of the stone slabs. This, as well as the context of the stone altars and ring around the Stone Lodge puts this structure in the context of being ancient.

    Some of the nearby hill-side cairns-

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Jwch4cJd5N...1600/ech16.jpg

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-uvbKc5JS5V...600/ech16A.jpg
    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kimwHxB8FL...600/ech16D.jpg

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-pYmeVUTpOg...600/ech16E.jpg

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Q6AurRPrO4...600/ech16G.jpg

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-PCair3RcU9...1600/ech21.jpg

    I also found that the Echo Lake Stone Lodge (my description) or Chamber, is very structurally similar to the Chamber found in Webster, MA. The landowner of the Webster MA. Chamber has done some restoration work to the Chamber on his property, older photos reveal it in a more decrepid state. Echo Lake structure is built into a boulder, while the Webster Chamber is dressed up with smaller stones-

    Echo Lake-
    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-oz-lO-saHm...600/ech7CA.jpg

    Webster, MA. Chamber-
    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-mMdwOaApQx...0/webster2.jpg
    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-B5fQdDMX-f...0/webster1.jpg

    Webster Chamber opens up into a "P" shape where Echo Lake structure is a straight "l"

    Temple/ Chamber along the Qinnebaug River (see earlier posts in thread). Incorporates being built into a boulder (such as by Echo Lake) and is dressed up in stone (as in Webster)-

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ObUVbJdsUZ...1600/cha1B.jpg (this is the chamber w/ the standing stones on the roof).

    It looks like the builders worked with what was available as a resource in the natural area, therefore differences in building materials, but the structures are similar enough that there was uniformity as well.

    Back to the Echo Lake area. Not only is this the headwaters of those 3 rivers, it is the highest point in the region, between Boston and Worcester, MA. It is located in a tract of land that was Indian Territory up through 1715, well into the colonial era and later than 1675/76, which was King Philip's War in the region, which broke the influence and power of the Native confederacies. Many survivors fled to Canada, were killed, or sold into slavery into the Carribean Islands. Yet a small remnant group of native people held on to some of this land, up through 1715 when it was aggresively purchased by trust funds and benefactors of Harvard University, such as Edward Hopkins, whom the town of Hopkinton, MA. is named after, the start of the Boston marathon. In the 1600's, there was a failed assasination attempt on Edward Hopkin's life by a native group in CT. He was playing groups of colonial and native alliances against each other. He was also a cabinet member of Oliver Cromwell.

    Anyway, before Plymouth Colony in 1620 exploration of the New England area began in 1497. Explorers were told to look for Norumbega, a lost city of gold said to be in the region. Expoloeres like Giovanni de Verrazano in 1524 who explored Narragansett Bay and Samuel de Champlain in 1608 even placed different locations of Norumbega on their maps. Was this just to please the crowns of europe to fund their expolrations or is there something to this Norumbega? Dutch "fisher-men" were also all over this region in the 1500's and in 1609, the Bank of Amsterdam, the first Central Bank, was established.

    Small amounts of gold were found in Hopkinton MA. in several places in the 19th century. If colonists who lived there for only 150 years could find it, Native people surely knew about it. Could it be that some of these structures, such as the Echo Lake Stone Lodge, were originally lined with Gold Leaf, plundered and stripped by early explorers and Dutch "fisher-men?" Hopkinton MA. also had/ has a mineral springs, which was a big ritzy tourist attraction in the 19th century. There is also a high concentration of Native ceremonial and stoneworks all through-out the towns of this area, what I refer to as "The Greater Echo Lake Area."

  12. #72
    Greetings,

    MarathonTmatt:

    You can really drop the knowledge. If you have a book/video series forthcoming, I am so buying it. If you have not considered doing something like that, please do. I think the world is ready for you and what you have to share.

    mickey
    Last edited by mickey; 04-20-2015 at 08:53 AM.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickey View Post
    Greetings,

    MarathonTmatt:

    You can really drop the knowledge. If you have a book/video series forthcoming, I am so buying it. If you have not considered doing something like that, please do. I think the world is ready for you and what you have to share.

    mickey
    Thanks mickey. Ever since you provided the link to the Ancient American magazine it has been in the back of my mind to organize some of my material and see if any magazines are interested in publishing any of my articles. That would be a good jumping off point at least. Still something I need to look into, though. Thanks.

  14. #74
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    New World Meets The Imperial Court: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yK-9hxk5HY

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by PalmStriker View Post
    New World Meets The Imperial Court: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yK-9hxk5HY

    Hey, yeah, some would say that Colombus was "last." There was another Spaniard on his ship, one of his right-hand mans that had explored the America's a decade or so before Colombus' first voyage. But because he was not as prostegious as Colombus, who was granted to work directly under the ordanance of the crown, people never here about those other explorations from those European areas. It's been my understanding that when Colombus first sailed he knew full well where he was going- this was the crown's chance to strategically make their move, and Colombus was their man.

    Chinese explorations of the Americas is pretty interesting. I'm sure there is alot from that time period not well known about or only dimly remembered. There is strong evidence that Marco Pollo sailed to the America's on a Chinese sailing fleet, a fact not well known about (Pollo would have then had that info for the Spanish/Portugese/ etc. crowns for when later exploiters such as Colombus sailed.

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