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Thread: 战跤 Combat Shuai Chiao

  1. #1
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    战跤 Combat Shuai Chiao

    These 2 clips were just uploaded to the Combat Shuai Chiao face book. I would like to share here to generate some "application" discussion. All comments are welcomed.

    http://johnswang.com

    More opinion -> more argument
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  2. #2
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    http://johnswang.com

    More opinion -> more argument
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    I just have this to say:

    There are two types of demo clips that can be done:
    1) strictly instructional/demos aimed at practitioners of the style that are training the style.
    2) Instructional/ demos for people wanting to learn the techniques of the style.

    The differences are that if you are doing clips for #1, those are perfectly fine because the viewer is getting practical hands on training already.
    They are not good enough for #2.

    For #2 you need to go beyond that and show it being "fought", ie: a practical demo of the technique in action VS a resisting opponent.

    Use the Dog Brothers "mantra" as a guide:

    See it taught, see it fought.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  4. #4
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    YKW most times I enjoy your topics of discussion, although on occasion I disagree with you, I still enjoy the topics you bring up as having a grappling background myself. Like ronin brought up I would like to see them in application practice. Got any vids of full on?
    Originally posted by Bawang
    i had an old taichi lady talk smack behind my back. i mean comon man, come on. if it was 200 years ago,, mebbe i wouldve smacked her and took all her monehs.
    Originally posted by Bawang
    i am manly and strong. do not insult me cracker.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    These 2 clips were just uploaded to the Combat Shuai Chiao face book. I would like to share here to generate some "application" discussion. All comments are welcomed.

    Like the video 1 much.

    A quick review of terms and techniques.

    We came a long way from the 1970s.

    It used to be drawing, still pictures and 8 mm films.

    For record keeping and reviewing.

    We then had betamax (Japan, Taiwan) and VHS (US/Canada).

    Then digital camera and VCD (China) and DVD (Taiwan, US).

    Then we have youtube in 2005.

    Video sharing via internet made easy.

    We came a long way.

    Great job for sharing the video(s) on Facebook or Youtube.


  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    Like video 2.

    It showed finish moves (seize etc) in addition to the throws.

    Great.


  7. #7
    Greetings,

    Some of those techniques, like cracking, forehead push and, knee lock and push, can cause injury if done full on in video number one.


    mickey

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    For #2 you need to go beyond that and show it being "fought", ie: a practical demo of the technique in action VS a resisting opponent.
    IMO, I can make clips in 2 different ways.

    1. My opponent attacks, I respond.
    2. I attack, my opponent responds, I then respond to his respond.

    I don't like to train the #1 situation because since my opponent moves in toward me, I don't have to move in toward him. He has done the "close distance" for me and I don't get to train my "entering strategy". If my opponent attacks first, I will use front kick or foot sweep to interrupt his attack, I then attack back. This way, I still attack first by definition.

    I like to train the #2 situation. If I attack when my opponent is still "on guard", that's exactly how the 1st clip and 2nd clip look like.
    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 08-12-2014 at 08:34 PM.
    http://johnswang.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonzbane76 View Post
    Like ronin brought up I would like to see them in application practice. Got any vids of full on?
    I assume you like to see this kind of clips, the clips that came from tournaments.

    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 08-12-2014 at 01:45 PM.
    http://johnswang.com

    More opinion -> more argument
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonzbane76 View Post
    Like ronin brought up I would like to see them in application practice. Got any vids of full on?
    Or something like this? Only in tournament, you will deal with full resisted opponent.

    http://johnswang.com

    More opinion -> more argument
    Less opinion -> less argument
    No opinion -> no argument

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    I just have this to say:

    There are two types of demo clips that can be done:
    1) strictly instructional/demos aimed at practitioners of the style that are training the style.
    2) Instructional/ demos for people wanting to learn the techniques of the style.

    The differences are that if you are doing clips for #1, those are perfectly fine because the viewer is getting practical hands on training already.
    They are not good enough for #2.

    For #2 you need to go beyond that and show it being "fought", ie: a practical demo of the technique in action VS a resisting opponent.

    Use the Dog Brothers "mantra" as a guide:

    See it taught, see it fought.
    If you give away training videos as demo's, how will you make any $$? All the videos Dan Severn, Bruce Baumgartner, Eric Paulson, etc... make that are designed to teach instead of demo cost $$. (They get leaked onto youtube anyway )

    Plus all your adverseries know how to do all your moves free.
    ***********. **********

    In clip #1 i like how he shows the explosive force neccisary to effectively use forehead pushing and helmet removing. I have made the mistake of using those in a strong but not explosive way and it is not as effective. The explosive force really makes a big difference when applying. Good reminder for me in practice.
    ******************

    As far as real full on, thats hard to catch on film. I got into a fight a few years back (actual 1 on 1, rare, i know, with onlookers even) where the other guy tried to throw me by catching my left arm, spinning and putting his left shoulder and trying to throw me. I sank and squeezed my knees into his knees and calves and drug him to the ground. So he held my wrist close to his chest and bit me on my outer forearm muscle next to my elbow. With his hands and his teeth he pulled and rolled to get on top, which i prevented. I crossfaced him across his nose and used scissor motion to break his teeth loose and to counter the roll. However, that cross face only gave him a new chance to bite me on my bicep, and keep pulling. So i did a helmet removing with my fingers in his eyes. He broke loose, i slipped off, then he came back down on my outer upeer arm between my bicep and tricep. He got a good bite that time. I tried helmet removing again, but without explosive force. It didnt work. I grabbed his nostrils finally and pulled his teeth off me again, and finally got him in a rear choke--which i did Not learn from Brazilian Jucifruits.
    Back then people didn't have video phones all over.
    Last edited by Pipefighter; 08-12-2014 at 02:31 PM.
    -------
    Its only a problem if there is a solution
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  12. #12
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    tournaments, fights, anything with full resistance. I don't mind clips of people showing techniques and how to perform, but you can see so much more from a movement done in "real" time and not orchestrated.
    Originally posted by Bawang
    i had an old taichi lady talk smack behind my back. i mean comon man, come on. if it was 200 years ago,, mebbe i wouldve smacked her and took all her monehs.
    Originally posted by Bawang
    i am manly and strong. do not insult me cracker.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonzbane76 View Post
    tournaments, fights, anything with full resistance. I don't mind clips of people showing techniques and how to perform, but you can see so much more from a movement done in "real" time and not orchestrated.
    Indeed.
    It doesn't even have to be a tournament, simply full on sparring.

    The Dog Brothers do that, they show the technique in the instructional phase, how it is done, counters and counter-counters, things like that. THEN they show it in a full one sparring session or tournament, which ever one they may have a clip of.

    Its sort of like showing how to do a lead left hook in training, then showing it in a sparring match and/ or in a clip from an actual fight in the ring.
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    Or something like this? Only in tournament, you will deal with full resisted opponent.


    We practice throws with full resistance outside tournaments sometimes.

    For instance, I will tell my partner how I am going to throw him, so that he knows what to expect. Then I try to pull it off under those conditions, and he does whatever he can to resist.




    Good video, tho. I remember that match. If you look quickly, you can see me pacing behind the ref with my newly broken hand.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RD'S Alias - 1A

    I have easily beaten every one I have ever fought.....

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronWeasel View Post
    We practice throws with full resistance outside tournaments sometimes. For instance, I will tell my partner how I am going to throw him, so that he knows what to expect. Then I try to pull it off under those conditions, and he does whatever he can to resist.
    I have different opinion about "resisted opponent". If you tell me that you want to use "hip throw" on me, the moment that you touch me, the moment that I sit down to the ground, there is no way that you will be able to apply "hip throw" on me.

    IMO, when you try to train the

    - basic throws, your opponent should "not" resist you.
    - combo throws, your opponent should resist "as hard as he can".

    For example, if your opponent resists against your "hip throw", you should

    - borrow his force,
    - reverse your throwing direction, and
    - apply "inner hook" to throw him backward.

    Your opponent's resistance can help you to train how to use your "hip throw" to set up your "inner hook" combo. His resistance cannot help you to train your "hip throw". The reason is simple. If he resists and you still want to use your "hip throw" on him, that's "force against force" which is against the basic TCMA principle - "borrow force".

    borrow force is A + B > A
    force against force is A - B < A

    Last edited by YouKnowWho; 08-13-2014 at 03:08 PM.
    http://johnswang.com

    More opinion -> more argument
    Less opinion -> less argument
    No opinion -> no argument

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