Page 5 of 12 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 171

Thread: Cheung Hung Sing: Founder of Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut Kung Fu

  1. #61
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    Posts
    1,799
    Quote Originally Posted by hskwarrior View Post
    oh you can believe Hung Sing and Buk has been holding their tongues as well which is equally as damaging as you allege yours could be.
    I believe we all have been "civil" about our history, except you and that is why I am here to provide an alternative point of view so it will not get out of hand and keep the balance.

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    10,532
    Blog Entries
    6
    But without Yuen Hai, you won't have a teacher of his lineage. The same without a God, we won't have a religion. Know your source when you drink your water Frank, it is that simple.
    Religion is for a bunch of lost souls in search of an answer. Religion is part of the problem. a big part.

    You say know the source. Well, since there are no pictures of Chan Heung in the Hung Sing Kwoon's, no hand forms shared, no shared hoi jongs, nor flavor, style, mindset, and so much more......our source is Cheung Hung Sing. The founder of Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut gung fu. Li Yau San, Chan Heung and Monk Ching Cho our ancestors. Ching Cho taught more gung fu to Cheung Hung Sing than Chan Heung or Li Yau San ever did.

    fix your own house before trying to fix mine.
    I'm pretty sure the only thing tongs do nowadays is make sure Chinese restaurants don't pay out tips to their waiters. - Pazman[/B]

    https://scontent-b-pao.xx.fbcdn.net/...8a&oe=52848D36

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    Posts
    1,799
    Quote Originally Posted by hskwarrior View Post
    Religion is for a bunch of lost souls in search of an answer. Religion is part of the problem. a big part.

    You say know the source. Well, since there are no pictures of Chan Heung in the Hung Sing Kwoon's, no hand forms shared, no shared hoi jongs, nor flavor, style, mindset, and so much more......our source is Cheung Hung Sing. The founder of Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut gung fu. Li Yau San, Chan Heung and Monk Ching Cho our ancestors. Ching Cho taught more gung fu to Cheung Hung Sing than Chan Heung or Li Yau San ever did.

    fix your own house before trying to fix mine.
    So you have more history and more stuff and that means more money and more prestige to you, see what I mean about changing history to get what you want?
    Last edited by extrajoseph; 05-11-2015 at 11:44 AM.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    10,532
    Blog Entries
    6

    The truth about the age difference between Cheung Hung Sing and Chan Hung

    by Sifu Frank McCarthy

    All across the board it is unanimously agreed upon that Jeung Hung Sing was only 12 years old when he first came to train under Chan Heung. His age is very significant in properly placing him within the family tree of the Choy Lee Fut system. For years, there was some controversy over his actual birth date because no one really knew what age he passed away either. However, many new revelations about the founder of Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut came with the re-emergence of the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon in 2001. For example, we now know he was married, a father, and he had a duel with Wing Chun's Master Leung Jan.

    With all of the new information coming out of the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon, we came to learn that Jeung Hung Sing died at the age of 69 years old in the year 1893. To figure out his birth year the logical thing to do at that time was subtract 69 years from 1893 which turned out to be the year 1824. The unanimously agreed upon age of Jeung Hung Sing was 12 years old and that would have placed him in the year 1836, the exact same year Chan Heung established his Choy Lee Fut system. In 1836 Chan Heung was only 30 years old, making him 18 years older than Jeung Hung Sing. Yet, after reading the accounts of some Choy Lee Fut schools it will leave you scratching your head.

    In some accounts originating from Chan Heung's lineages they would have you believe that he was much older than Jeung Hung Sing. In fact, I've witnessed certain individuals interested in the history as well try to keep as much distance between them as possible in order to seem more credible. One of the ways they try to do this is by labeling Jeung Hung Sing as one of the last batch of Chan Heung's students in the year 1867. By doing this they are attempting to invalidate everything Jeung Hung Sing achieved prior to that year.

    In 1867 Chan Heung was 61 years old and by trying to place Jeung Hung Sing as his student within this time frame only, their objective becomes extremely clear. They wanted to paint a picture of a much younger Jeung Hung Sing learning from a much older version of Chan Heung. However, that just wasn't the case. The twelve year old Jeung Hung Sing was training under a 30 year old Chan Heung. This means there was only an 18 year difference between them and not something like 40- 50 years as they wanted everyone to believe.

    At the age of twelve years old Jeung Hung Sing would have viewed Chan Heung as a grown up but certainly not as an elderly person. He trained under Chan Heung for five years until he was seventeen years old. Within that time, it's alleged that Chan Heung travelled around promoting his gung fu and he took Jeung Hung Sing along with him. This in fact makes sense because according to my lineages history Chan Heung was responsible for the young man during this time. And five years is indeed sufficient enough time to gain a solid understanding of Choy Lee Fut's foundational material.

    Now, the only known documentation of Jeung Hung Sing in Chan Heung's archives only mention that Jeung Hung Sing returned to Fut San in 1867 to re-open the Hung Sing Kwoon. The way it is written seems to infer that Chan Heung was the person who originally sent Jeung Hung Sing to the city of Fut San to assume control of a Choy Lee Fut school that recently closed due to the master going blind. At the same time, ignoring the fact that historically Jeung Hung Sing is reported to have established his school in 1851.

    Additionally, in 1864 Chan Heung was 58 years old and Jeung Hung Sing was 40 years old when the both of them fled to hong kong after the Tai Ping Rebellion was over. It was here that they reunited for the first time after 26 years. By this time, Chan Heung was well aware of Jeung Hung Sing's accomplishments and since they were both members of the Hung Mun branch that was founded by the Green Grass Monk he treated him like a brother instead of a former student.

    According to the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon history, Jeung Hung Sing taught Chan Heung some of the Fut Gar Kuen he learned from the Green Grass Monk. And, because he was influential in the further evolution of Chan Heung's creation our lineage refers to Jeung Hung Sing as a co-founder of sorts because of his contributions. However, this seemed to upset a few students under the Chan Heung banner. They began falsely accusing the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon lineages of trying to rewrite the history as THEY knew it. The only problem was, much of what they were trying to tell us about our own history didn't fit or add up at all.

    Another Issue regarding the ages of both Jeung Hung Sing and Chan Heung was we two separate birth dates for Chan Heung. The King Mui lineages state he was born in 1806. The Fut San sources claim his real birth year was 1815. If this latter date is correct that makes Chan Heung only 9 years older than Jeung Hung Sing instead of an 18 year difference. I've also heard it said that they(King Mui) changed Chan Heung's birth year to make him look much older than Jeung Hung Sing.

    During my research I happened to come across a PDF file online that outlined Chan Heung's life. In the article it mentioned that Chan Heung was of a certain age when some kind of event took place. When I counted backwards from the date given, by their own account Chan Heung was born in 1815. I mentioned this on a kung fu forum and then next thing I knew the original author omitted that section immediately afterwards. The only explanation he gave was he made a mistake.

    In conclusion, truth always prevails in the end. The Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon lineages have never budged in what has been taught to us in regards to our history. Nor have we ever tried to rewrite anything. The only thing we are doing is telling our side of the story as it was passed down to us via our elders. We are a proud bunch of students, masters and grand masters striving to keep our legacy intact and unadulterated.

    Long Live Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut aka Hung Sing Kuen!!!!!
    I'm pretty sure the only thing tongs do nowadays is make sure Chinese restaurants don't pay out tips to their waiters. - Pazman[/B]

    https://scontent-b-pao.xx.fbcdn.net/...8a&oe=52848D36

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    10,532
    Blog Entries
    6
    So you have more history and more stuff and that means more money and more prestige to you, see what I mean about change history to gain more money and prestige?
    you think i'm doing this for money and prestige? LMAO. I'm doing this for the honor of my lineage Mr Minster of Deceit.
    I'm pretty sure the only thing tongs do nowadays is make sure Chinese restaurants don't pay out tips to their waiters. - Pazman[/B]

    https://scontent-b-pao.xx.fbcdn.net/...8a&oe=52848D36

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    Posts
    1,799
    Quote Originally Posted by hskwarrior View Post
    you think i'm doing this for money and prestige? LMAO. I'm doing this for the honor of my lineage Mr Minster of Deceit.
    So you are doing this for the honor of your lineage at the detriment of other lineage, how honorable!

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    10,532
    Blog Entries
    6
    So you are doing this for the honor of your lineage at the detriment of other lineage, how honorable!
    you mean while the other lineage tells untruths about my lineage to benefit themselves? for example:


    WHO SENT JEUNG HUNG SING TO FUT SAN?
    by Sifu McCarthy 2/01/2014

    The year 1867 was the only time Jeung Hung Sing was mentioned in Chan Heung's records. And, the only thing stated was that he returned to Fut San to re-open his Hung Sing Kwoon. It's at this point that Chan Heung related branches assume-for some unknown reason-that this was the time Chan Heung sent him to Fut San. Another big mistake is they also say Chan Heung sent him to Fut San to take over as the successor of Chan Din Foon's school because he went blind. However much of this is untrue when viewed from the perspective of Jeung Hung Sing's Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon.

    Again, Chan Heung's records only say Jeung Hung Sing returned to Fut San to re-open his Hung Sing Kwoon in 1867. Still, not much thought was put into that statement because Jeung Hung Sing clearly returned to "RE-OPEN" his school that he previously established in 1851, but closed it down due to the Tai Ping Rebellion. It wasn't possible for Jeung Hung Sing to take over Chan Din Foon's school in 1867 because he didn't go blind until 1875. As well, Jeung Hung Sing was already in Fut San from 1867 to 1875 so Chan Heung couldn't have sent him there since he was already there in the first place.

    The truth of the matter is, in 1849 the Green Grass Monk was the one to send Jeung Hung Sing to the city of Fut San. He basically had three instructions. 1) Go to Fut San and make contact with the triad leaders, 2) open a school using the "Hung Sing" name, 3) prepare the revolutionary fighters for war. That was his purpose in the city of Fut San and not the false story of Chan Heung sending him there to open and represent the "Great Sage" school. If the opposite were true, there would have been absolutely no reason for Jeung Hung Sing to take down the Great Sage name and replace it with his Glorious Victory school's name.

    Why did Jeung Hung Sing need to return to Fut San and re-open his school for in the first place, right? Well, at the end of the Tai Ping Rebellion in 1864, the soldiers of Qing Empire were hunting for rebels. Although they left at separate times, in between the years 1864 to 1867 they fled to Hong Kong to wait until things cooled down enough for them to return to King Mui and Fut San. The three years they spent in Hong Kong catching up on things was long enough for Jeung Hung Sing to re-enter the Choy Lee Fut picture. Except, this time he came back as a co-founder of sorts because of his contributions to the further advancement of the Choy Lee Fut system.

    Perhaps in the time they spent together in Hong Kong, maybe Chan Heung and Jeung Hung Sing discussed choosing a new name of his school. Because if Jeung Hung Sing was going to re-open it he was going to need a new name so not to draw attention to himself. Then in 1867 they returned to their respective schools to pick up where they left off. Except now, Choy Lee Fut has sprouted a new and separate branch called Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut, founded by Jeung Hung Sing. Hopefully, this will put who sent Jeung Hung Sing to Fut San to rest as we've always claimed from the beginning, it was the Green Grass Monk who sent Jeung Hung Sing to the city of Fut San.
    Last edited by hskwarrior; 05-11-2015 at 12:26 PM.
    I'm pretty sure the only thing tongs do nowadays is make sure Chinese restaurants don't pay out tips to their waiters. - Pazman[/B]

    https://scontent-b-pao.xx.fbcdn.net/...8a&oe=52848D36

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    10,532
    Blog Entries
    6
    But without Yuen Hai, you won't have a teacher of his lineage. The same without a God, we won't have a religion. Know your source when you drink your water Frank, it is that simple.
    Choy Fook should have then claimed to be OF their lineage but clarify he was not actually taught by these people.
    I'm pretty sure the only thing tongs do nowadays is make sure Chinese restaurants don't pay out tips to their waiters. - Pazman[/B]

    https://scontent-b-pao.xx.fbcdn.net/...8a&oe=52848D36

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    Posts
    1,799
    There were branches everywhere, in Hong Kong, in Guangzhou, in Sun Wui and in Kong Mun etc. They all taught a similar curriculum, there was nothing extra special about Futsan over others.

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    Posts
    1,799
    Frank, You just want to make your lineage bigger and better. You can do it with action, there is no need to and you can't do it through history.

  11. #71
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    10,532
    Blog Entries
    6
    There were branches everywhere, in Hong Kong, in Guangzhou, in Sun Wui and in Kong Mun etc. They all taught a similar curriculum, there was nothing extra special about Futsan over others.
    nothing extra special. LMAO. you sound like FORMS were far more important than real combat skills. Our forms are absolutely different in appearance, feel, and application in comparison to those of the chan heung lineages. therefore you may keep all of your forms....we don't need those.

    Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon of Cheung Hung Sing was THE most famous school of CLF in southern China, followed by Chan Ngau Sing who took it to the next level.
    I'm pretty sure the only thing tongs do nowadays is make sure Chinese restaurants don't pay out tips to their waiters. - Pazman[/B]

    https://scontent-b-pao.xx.fbcdn.net/...8a&oe=52848D36

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    10,532
    Blog Entries
    6
    Frank, You just want to make your lineage bigger and better. You can do it with action, there is no need to and you can't do it through history.
    Negative. WE are who WE are. plain and simple. the most famous branch of CLF. hands down. don't be mad. it just is.

    you're just upset that our history puts a shadow on yours, if this weren't true you folks would have never kept altering your history as often as you have. the base of our history has been the same since the beginning of time.
    I'm pretty sure the only thing tongs do nowadays is make sure Chinese restaurants don't pay out tips to their waiters. - Pazman[/B]

    https://scontent-b-pao.xx.fbcdn.net/...8a&oe=52848D36

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    Posts
    1,799
    Quote Originally Posted by hskwarrior View Post
    Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon of Cheung Hung Sing was THE most famous school of CLF in southern China, followed by Chan Ngau Sing who took it to the next level.
    Wow, Futsan WAS the most famous CLF school in southern China! ...and now?

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    10,532
    Blog Entries
    6
    Wow, Futsan WAS the most famous CLF school in southern China! ...and now?
    yes. i didn't stutter. Now, it is very famous as well, since so many people keep flocking to our school there in fut san.

    did i hurt your intellectual feewings? not sorry. not in the least.
    I'm pretty sure the only thing tongs do nowadays is make sure Chinese restaurants don't pay out tips to their waiters. - Pazman[/B]

    https://scontent-b-pao.xx.fbcdn.net/...8a&oe=52848D36

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    10,532
    Blog Entries
    6
    In the end, i am NOT insulting the Chan Family. We don't have any obvious connection aside from the name. we are the FUT SAN GREAT VICTORY SCHOOL......and very proud of it. i am only correcting their mistakes in regards to my lineages history.
    I'm pretty sure the only thing tongs do nowadays is make sure Chinese restaurants don't pay out tips to their waiters. - Pazman[/B]

    https://scontent-b-pao.xx.fbcdn.net/...8a&oe=52848D36

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •